Just released TAKS scores - percent of exemplary schools in districts (Dallas: neighborhood, buy)

[DFWMike]

I'm not trying to nitpick it to down you lakewooder or the area, it just has kind of bothered me that it is being trumpeted with such zeal to unsuspecting transplants to Dallas. If fact, I think you're probably a pretty classy guy, I just disagree on this topic. If that disappeared I would stop aiming for it, both of the high schools I attended are still bearing an acceptable rating, not great, but not failing all the same.

I don't mind you trumpeting Lakewood, it is a great area, but don't try to tell the people that the public schools are great, just gives them the wrong idea. There are wonderful private schools down there. I know some would say it's not my job to argue that, they could check great schools.net and visit for themselves. But this is one of things people ask about regularly on these forums and I try to give them an honest answer to what they will be encountering.

By the way, I grew up pretty much everywhere, but you'd have a hard time giving a more critical version of my alma mater than I would give, it's crap and I know it. It's been unacceptable for a while until recently, but I'm sure they're not acceptable by much now as they still have test scores that aren't real high. I managed to survive out of that just fine, but at the time I would've given anything for that not to have been necessary, and to have had the fortune of going to a plano/richardson school but i didn't. I'm pretty sure Lakewood was outstanding for a long time, but now it's a ghost of it's former self. Thats sad, but things change.

[Lakewooder]

"I'm pretty sure Lakewood was outstanding for a long time, but now it's a ghost of it's (sic) former self. Thats sad, but things change".


With that statement you reveal that you know absolutely nothing about the area. So I will regard your future statements as either malevolent or misinformed. I will however respond to your attacks on my neighborhood and schools if it involves advice to another poster.

[sonshinelife]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Sonshinelife what are your ideas on why students can have the same teachers and some go on to prestigious colleges and the others flunk out or drop out?

I too think some of these tests are overrated when it comes to how good a school really is - there are a lot of variables here and schools with only one subgroup have a five times better chance of getting a good rating.

Lakewooder, please clarify your question for me. I think I'm following you but would rather not answer until I make sure I'm understanding what your are asking. Thanks.

[loves2read]

Two points regarding TAKS testing:
any student's scores on TAKS are counted in the school/district over all scores ONCE--kids who repeated take tests get their scores but they do not affect the total %...it is only the INITIAL test scores that count in evaluating district's efficiency and success--

Students with English not the home/first language get 1 pass at TAKS testing before their test results count in the district/school scores--if they come into the school the week before TAKS in February (for hs students) that is their one pass--they have to be brought up to passing on their grade level the next time the main tests occur--could you become proficient in French or Spanish or Vietnamese and asnwer some fairly sophisticated questions that ALL require good reading skills in subject matters in say --8 months of school--and function on a hs grade level???
I don't know too many people with limited exposure to another language who could--the test can be difficult for students who have lived in US all their lives but have not had a "quality" education...many students who are immigrating to US have little to no education--one recent emigrant from the Sudan had never been in school before...so how can a young person like that be expected to acquire what other students have taken 11 years to do--even the most willing person would find that a tremendous handicap

some ESL students work their butts off and get a passing grade so they can eventually graduate--some enter so late that it is almost impossible to make up enough ground to pass --- yet each student's scores once their free pass is over are counted

and a person can have a learning disability which testing indicates is not severe enough to allow exemption from TAKS---it is not the district's fault if the types of modifications that are allowed and even required by state/federal law are NOT ALLOWED during TAKS testing--teachers know that is not an equitable arrangement--but they have no power to change it---the only ones who do are parents with enough clout to lobby the legislature for appropriate modifications...
unfortunately--having individual schools make modifications to TAKS tests would render any scores from those tests worthless....
that is why the state is going to the end-of-course tests on grade levels so they will be tied more closely to normal curricula/teaching---but it will be very difficult to offer allowed modifications to any 504 students or those with less than very severe learning disabilities...

[DFWMike]

I'm not gonna argue about it any longer unless someone asks about schools, I'm sure that students in Woodrow Wilson have a much better experience than those of Allen, Plano, and Richardson......suburban high schools.

Since you(Lakewood) are completely disregarding the facts and willing to send unsuspecting new residents to the area into schools that are substandard I will continue to believe you are blind to reality. You make broad statements about the suburbs just as much as I do about your area, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[lpepping]

I am not trying to defend Lakewooder or anything but what exactly makes Woodrow substandard? Is it because some or alot of their disadvantaged students have a hard time achieving which leads to low pass rates on standardized tests? Or is it because they are doing a poor job of teaching? Just curious what your perspective is on this.

[DFWMike]

I would think it is both, I'm just saying would you want to send your kids there? They apparently have a great AP program, but their test scores are terrible and they are listed as academically unacceptable. And what's being disregarded here is that there are other schools with similiar ethnic and income sets that are doing just fine in the same rankings, what's the difference in those schools would be my question?(Irving HS, Arlington Sam Houston HS to just mention a couple) I've specifically pointed those out in other posts, too long to go into again, and this is becoming too much trouble to argue about.

However, I will say there is a great deal of pride associated with the school without a doubt. It's not that its the worst school in the world, it's just theres so much sunshine pumped about how great this school is that just doesn't match the facts.

But I really will back off on this, because it seems to be getting personal and I never intended this to get that way. I'm beginning to look like a goof for saying what everyone else is thinking, if they weren't thinking DISD was bad the demographics at WW would be much different.

[lpepping]

Yea I hear what you are saying. Some background on myself...I went to a DISD school that was/is consistently ranked as unacceptable. The problem with the school though was not the teachers in my opinion. I had some great teachers there and yes they were the advanced courses. The problem from my perspective was in the students and their unwillingness to learn. I do not know what the teachers could of done to change the mindset of the majority of the students. It was quite sad because some of them had the potential but never really used it. But anyways, I guess the students do make the school in a certain way.

To answer your question I do not have kids. But if I did I would be comfortable sending them to White, Hillcrest or any of the magnets. Woodrow I would have to look into in more depth.

[DFWMike]

Originally Posted by lpepping

Yea I hear what you are saying. Some background on myself...I went to a DISD school that was/is consistently ranked as unacceptable. The problem with the school though was not the teachers in my opinion. I had some great teachers there and yes they were the advanced courses. The problem from my perspective was in the students and their unwillingness to learn. I do not know what the teachers could of done to change the mindset of the majority of the students. It was quite sad because some of them had the potential but never really used it. But anyways, I guess the students do make the school in a certain way.

To answer your question I do not have kids. But if I did I would be comfortable sending them to White, Hillcrest or any of the magnets. Woodrow I would have to look into in more depth.

I believe WT White has decent scores actually and is academically acceptable as is Hillcrest, not sure I would have a problem with those either, when my wife was looking for a teaching position to transfer into she looked at those two schools, ended up being too far to commute to.

And I believe what you say about kids wanting to learn, you're probably right, I personally would rather my kids be in an environment where there is a will to learn from the surrounding students. I just hate for peoples kids to have to struggle through that environment when they don't have to.

[Lakewooder]

lpepping and loves2 I think you understand. sonshine - the question was really sort of rhetorical.

lpepping, I too had experience with some students who did not want to learn. It's not discussed much but there is some peer pressure in certain groups not to do well in school because then they will become outsiders or considered to be a wannabe of another group. Without getting too much into racial issues the words 'cocanut' and 'oreo' are thrown around.

It is better if those kids just drop out? A lot of them do this during their sophomore year. I wish they wouldn't - we have to remember the Jeffersonian ideal. However in Jefferson's day there were a very large percentage of people who never attended school. Now we actually try to educate everyone. Inevitably groups and individuals will fail who would not have even attended school before....so when you are trying to educate the kids of someone who really never went to school in Mexico and doesn't even know proper Spanish, how do you begin to get them involved?

Weighty questions, yes. And I am not happy with my school's score at all - but I understand what happened and I also understand that the top kids are not being slowed down by this. In fact I would argue it is good for those privileged kids to go to school with the others. I am certainly happy I did. I love those people just as well as my friends with doctorates and yachts.

Yes, I love my school and my neighborhood and I take it personally when someone torpedos the entire school/area because a couple of groups failed to meet a percentage and wrecked the rating. In fact our scores did go up but not enough and the standards were raised. Next year we should be o.k. - this principal (an alumna) is starting her third year and looks to be making good progress. She is half-Hispanic so I am hoping she can connect with some of the parents who have not been involved with their kids and school.

So how does a school with the top kids going to Ivy League schools, ranked above nearly every suburban school in D Magazine and Newsweek get a rating of 'academically unacceptable'? It takes a little digging, and most people are not willing to do that...