Agnostics in St. Mark's, Lamplighter, Greenhill? (Dallas, Plano: chapel, credit, neighborhood)

[Imperfectmom]

Alright, I am going out on a limb here to get some information to help my husband and I make the best decision possible for our family. I really hope anyone responding to this will respect what this thread is about and not turn it into a religious or diversity debate.

DH's job in Plano has a branch in San Francisco and he can work out of whichever office he wants. We are contemplating moving to the Bay Area (Marin county for those interested) by the end of this year. There are A TON of factors to consider and religion is one that is really important to us. DH and I are openly agnostic. If we stay in Dallas we plan on living in the Preston Hollow area and we hope that our son will attend Lamplighter, St. Mark's or Greenhill. Not sure what preschool and kinder he would go to for St. Mark's (I assume most come from a church school???). I know what the websites all say about each school's religious affiliation and chapel (St. Mark's) but I want to know what the atmosphere is REALLY like at each.

I taught in Frisco (elementary) before becoming a SAHM and I saw first hand how hard it was on the 2-3 kiddos in my classroom who were not Christian. Every one of those 2-3 students per class each year was of non-white ethnicity and was of another religion. *Let me say that my husband and I have friends of all ethnicities and religions and will encourage our son to do the same, I am bringing this up because we are curious if our son will be the only white non-christian kid in his class.*

Selfishly, I also would like to know what the other moms are like. Right now my mom friends are all friends I made through teaching and 100% of them attend a church on a regular basis. Is this just the norm in Dallas?

Thanks in advance.

[TurtleCreek80]

Dallas certainly is the Bible Belt- much, much more church-going than San Fran. I would venture to guess that well over 50% of Preston Hollow either attends a Christian church or a Jewish synagogue. PH/North Dallas/Central Richardson corridor is the Jewish hub in Dallas, with many synagogues, kosher stores, and people. I mention this to explain the culture there isn't 100% Christian, but it is still religious in a more diverse way. Athiests/ agnostics/ other religions are certainly represented, but if you show up to your first neighborhood block party and say, "hello, we're the Imperfectfamily, and we're agnostic", you're going to get some funny looks!!

On the school front, Greenhill is the most liberal and where your family would probably feel most at home. St Marks & Lamplighter are more mainstream prep schools, where 80%+ of the class will be white and either Jewish or Christian. The diversity will tend to come from Asian, Indian, & black students. Chapel is required at St Mark's, but includes readings from a variety religious texts. Many who end up at St Mark's start do Pre-school at Lamplighter and them move over in grade 1 or 5. Many come from church Pre-schools, which are difficult to get into if you are not a member of the church. Temple
Emanu El has a great Pre-school that appeals to all faiths and I don't think it's as hard to get into if you're not a member.

PS- Just as with applying to college, you NEED a "safety" school plan. Your short list of private schools is incredibly competitive, with Greenhill and St Mark's accepting about 20% of their applicants. Unless your husband is the CEO of Frito Lay or whatever company he's with in Plano, admission to any of those schools is not a "lock" for anyone. You need to find some back-up options that you're comfortable with, includif a mix of neighborhood public schools and less selective privates.

Hope this helps shed some light.

[pepper131]

Lamplighter feeds into St Marks very well.

You'll probably find less Christians at Greenhill; or at a Montessori such as St Alcuin or White Rock Montessori.

I find less Christian folks in East Dallas (gasp!...I know an agnostic family in Lakewood) - Junius Heights, Little Forest Hills. Or in North Oak Cliff - Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Winnetka Heights, etc.

[debtex]

As a not-religious family that moved from California, let me reassure you...it's not like people are constantly talking about this topic. It rarely, very rarely, comes up. People mention what church they go to, but I never hear people quoting the bible, etc.

Our kids went to the JCC (we're not Jewish) in CA, and now they go to an episcopal school (we're not episcopal, either.) They get religious instruction at school, but we don't really reinforce it at home. In the end, they learn about Christianity, which is something that is culturally important in this country, even if you don't subscribe to it.

Those schools are not going to be all that religious. They are, as TC80 mentioned, incredibly competitive. We are in Lakewood, where things are a little less crazy with the privates and for all I know, a little less pressurized on the religion front.

Good luck, this will be a big change from Marin, but it's a lot easier to live here than it is there in a lot of ways...

[Lakewooder]

I'm going to say Greenhill but if you want to live in North Dallas you should also check out WT White, Hillcrest and their feeder schools.

At my high school, Woodrow Wilson, in Lakewood we elected an agnostic president of our class and this was a very long time ago! Today my alma mater (recently accredited as an IB World School) is one of the few schools around Dallas with a GLSEN chapter.

[hamiltonpl]

I would echo TC80's comments. The majority of students at St Marks are not Catholics, a Catholic school. "Chapel" is more of a description of a place than the event. It is usually a non-religious speech or music. All religions are represented. Greenhill is private and non-religious. But I would guess that the majority of those students are still Christian. Personally, I don't think there is any danger in going to a school where you are not a member of the dominant religion. In fact, I think it would be good to expose your son to new ideas.

If your experience with DFW was limited to the exurb that is Frisco, please rest assured that most of Dallas is not like Frisco-culture at all. White people move there looking for a conservative place to raise a family. Dallas itself is certainly more open to all religions and non-religions. Call up the schools and ask them these questions.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by hamiltonpl

I would echo TC80's comments. The majority of students at St Marks are not Catholics, a Catholic school. "Chapel" is more of a description of a place than the event. It is usually a non-religious speech or music. All religions are represented. Greenhill is private and non-religious. But I would guess that the majority of those students are still Christian. Personally, I don't think there is any danger in going to a school where you are not a member of the dominant religion. In fact, I think it would be good to expose your son to new ideas.

If your experience with DFW was limited to the exurb that is Frisco, please rest assured that most of Dallas is not like Frisco-culture at all. White people move there looking for a conservative place to raise a family. Dallas itself is certainly more open to all religions and non-religions. Call up the schools and ask them these questions.

St Mark's is loosely Episcopal in tradition. It is not Catholic. Catholic schools- as outstanding as the academics are- are not a place for an agnostic family since religion is woven through every classroom.

[elan]

TurtleCreek80 has PH pegged pretty well, religious in a more diverse way is an excellent choice of words. Temple Emanu El does have an excellent preschool, my Baptist neighbor's will attest to that. Their little daughter was so cute singing Ladle Ladle Ladle I made it out of clay, lol. Another neighbor who I think is pretty agnostic sent their son to Lakehill prep, then Jesuit with no problems. A Jewish neighbor sent their girls to Lamplighter then Greenhill. To answer your question, yes it's religious here but in a different sort of way.

[Macbeth2003]

Originally Posted by Imperfectmom

Selfishly, I also would like to know what the other moms are like. Right now my mom friends are all friends I made through teaching and 100% of them attend a church on a regular basis. Is this just the norm in Dallas?

No. Dallas, not the Exurbs, but Dallas itself, is much more diverse than that. It may be majority Christian ,but there is certainly a lot of everything else. Where I grew up in far north Dallas it was majority Christian with a healthy sprinkling of Jewish, and agnostic families (many of the Christians were Christmas/Easter Christians). When I look at my friends with kids, I know agnostics, atheists, Christians of all stripes, Zoroastrians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus and a few neo-pagans. Some I see regularly, some only rarely, but all live in Dallas. I suspect you will have little trouble fitting in , so long as you aren't trying to convince anyone to abandon faith (which being an agnostic I can't imagine you would be.)

As for Greenhill, I can tell you that my wife is currently taking a class in Cultural and religious diversity awareness for early childhood education that is being taught by a professor who also teaches at Greenhill.

[Imperfectmom]

Thank you all for posting! Sounds like it is a little more diverse and accepting than Frisco, which is encouraging for us.

We do know that these schools are very competitive and need to have backups. Any suggestions on back up privates that will be non-sectarian? If we go public, we would do HPISD which would mean living in UP and I am worried that atmosphere is going to be very similar to Frisco in regards to religion...