Out of place with a $200K income? (Dallas, Southlake: apartment, buying)
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Snootiness generally runs north from downtown along Preston Road (YES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS). The touts of old used to call that "The Golden Corridor" then I think some Real Estate office around Campbell Road way up north starting calling that stretch "Platinum" to one-up the hype. Come over east of 75, most of us don't care about that and it's amusing to observe those addlepated alchemists.
with that kind of income, you would fit right in Highland Park. No one over there would be intimidated by your income, since they probably make that and more.
Highland Park and Westlake might be the only places where that's below income...University park and Southlake have average incomes below 200K according to census data.
I think there is more "social pressure" in the new money areas like Frisco, Plano, and Southlake than in Lakewood/ Park Cities/ Preston Hollow. The in-town neighborhoods are more accepting based on your pedigree (Oh, your maiden name was "xyz"? I grew up with your brother! Oh, we went to SMU together. Oh, you went to Camp Longhorn? So did my wife!, etc) than what you wear/drive/etc. Not to say most of the residents who live there don't dress well/ drive new cars, but if you don't, you're certainly not shunned!! The pecking order is more "old money" mentality because so many people have lived in/near the areas their whole life or married someone who grew up there.
In newer areas where many people are new/ unknown, there seems to be more blatant spending to show where parents & kids fit in.
If you want proof, go check out the cars at Highland Park High School and then go to Carroll High School and let me know which school has more SUV's and late model BMW/Benz/Lexus and which school has more new sports cars and Hummers. It's probably not what you think.
If I were to rate the ease of moving into an area like the Park Cities/ Lakewood/ PH, I would rank the "situations" in this order:
1. Have mega money ($500k+ annual income) and have grown up there or married someone who did. Having mega money & having attended SMU or UT or Camp Longhorn is rates comes in at 1.5.
2. Have mega-money and be savy enough to quickly surmise the social ettiquette of the area (ie, NOT ok to buy your 16-y-o a Hummer and if your kid says "I'm rich" you correct him and say "you are not rich. your daddy is rich. you'll need to work hard to have your own").
3. Have average money and have grown up there or married someone who did.....or have attended SMU/ UT/ Camp Longhorn.
4. Have average money and no connections, but be willing & open to being super volunteers via church & schools. (This will lead to connections). People love the ladies who have the time and patience to run the PTA, be room mothers, block captains, etc.
5. Have average money and no connections and dual income (no time to make connections).
Well I'm in the parking lot at Southlake Carroll almost weekly and kids driving brand new SUV's and sports cars is a urban legend. The cars are modest. Typical vehicle would be a used pick-up for the boys and a used japanese import for the girls.
Every high school has some goof ball parent that buys his kid a brand new expensive sports care here and there.
And btw our income in Southlake is around $200K and we have no grief about this whatsoever. Scores of neighborhoods with famlies living in this same income range.
Last edited by padcrasher; 05-25-2011 at 04:14 PM..
Well I'm in the parking lot at Southlake Carroll almost weekly and kids driving brand new SUV's and sports cars is a urban legend. The cars are modest. Typical vehicle would be a used pick-up for the boys and a used japanese import for the girls.
Every high school has some goof ball parent that buys his kid a brand new expensive sports care here and there.
And btw our income in Southlake is around $200K and we have no grief about this whatsoever. Scores of neighborhoods with famlies living in this same income range.
When is the type of car a kid drives the sine qua non for social status? There's disposable income. Hell everyone in Detroit, loosely associated with the auto industry has a new Escalade, their house may be decrepit and have bars on the second floor windows, but there's a new whip out front of each home.
So parents can buy their kids whatever. And it's gets to the Ross Perot point (he drives a beater around Dallas) because he's got nothing to prove to anyone.
200k a year is a ton of money. But (and I include myself in this) it's not private jet money, it's not first class seat money, it may not even be weekend 2nd fun car money.
So for 200k, you'll live comfortably in a smaller home unless a spouse is bringing home a similar check. Otherwise, you're in HP/UP and it's hand to mouth on a higher plateau.
If you want to see what 'money' looks like, Troy Aikman's place is up for sale at $24 million, now that's a pad. The rest of us are just working stiffs.
it's truly amazing...here in Dallas we are talking about a $200K income opening up access to the most exclusive parts of the metroplex, in Highland Park and Southlake. Yet if you scroll down to the end of this page, you will see in the 'Similar Threads' section, a New York thread where the OP is asking if a $200K income would get him/her an apartment with parking in NY...and I just got back from NY last week...a bunch of old, cramped buildings all over. We Texans need to be thankful for the lower cost of living down here...
I think there is more "social pressure" in the new money areas like Frisco, Plano, and Southlake than in Lakewood/ Park Cities/ Preston Hollow. The in-town neighborhoods are more accepting based on your pedigree (Oh, your maiden name was "xyz"? I grew up with your brother! Oh, we went to SMU together. Oh, you went to Camp Longhorn? So did my wife!, etc) than what you wear/drive/etc. Not to say most of the residents who live there don't dress well/ drive new cars, but if you don't, you're certainly not shunned!! The pecking order is more "old money" mentality because so many people have lived in/near the areas their whole life or married someone who grew up there.
In newer areas where many people are new/ unknown, there seems to be more blatant spending to show where parents & kids fit in.
If you want proof, go check out the cars at Highland Park High School and then go to Carroll High School and let me know which school has more SUV's and late model BMW/Benz/Lexus and which school has more new sports cars and Hummers. It's probably not what you think.
If I were to rate the ease of moving into an area like the Park Cities/ Lakewood/ PH, I would rank the "situations" in this order:
1. Have mega money ($500k+ annual income) and have grown up there or married someone who did. Having mega money & having attended SMU or UT or Camp Longhorn is rates comes in at 1.5.
2. Have mega-money and be savy enough to quickly surmise the social ettiquette of the area (ie, NOT ok to buy your 16-y-o a Hummer and if your kid says "I'm rich" you correct him and say "you are not rich. your daddy is rich. you'll need to work hard to have your own").
3. Have average money and have grown up there or married someone who did.....or have attended SMU/ UT/ Camp Longhorn.
4. Have average money and no connections, but be willing & open to being super volunteers via church & schools. (This will lead to connections). People love the ladies who have the time and patience to run the PTA, be room mothers, block captains, etc.
5. Have average money and no connections and dual income (no time to make connections).
This.
This also applies to Preston Hollow, and on a lesser scale to Lakewood (there's definitely conspicuous consumption in Lakewood, and the same CLH/SMU/UT old boys' club, but it's not the same extent).
I would say that it's similar for the "newer money" burbs (for lack of a better word) like Southlake and West Plano, except that social connections are not as important and work connections matter more. You can buy your way into Gleneagles; you cannot buy your way into DCC or Brook Hollow.
You seem to making 2 opposing points here about the Park Cities.
So, you're saying the CoCo and Southlake people use money to "buy" their way up the social ladder, whereas Parkies don't do that. You've used that argument before when encouraging posters to move to HP/UP - they won't have to open their wallets to get invites to playgroups.
You go on to say this:
Hmmm, that's the dark side of the "we Parkies don't care about money" mindset. Specifically, that your place on the social totem pole is set by who you know (and who your parents know), not what you make. Point taken, but that would seem to make UP/HP a terrible place for "new money" to move to.
So far, I'll buy all that. But wait! (Here's where you are contradicting yourself.) There's an exception to that "HP/UP New Money Freeze-out" status.
Again, hmmmm. So mega-money in HP/UP trumps being well-connected in HP/UP. I guess you CAN buy your way up the social ladder in HP/UP - it just takes a lot more $$$ than in the suburbs, and you keep the money in your wallet (except for the $1M+ you blew buying the HP/UP property). Perhaps the two places aren't so different after all.
I would disagree with some of this. Who you know does matter more than how much money you make. The mega-money doesn't get you anywhere if you don't socialize with anyone, but having mega-money makes it easier for you to socialize with people who are well-connected.
I would say that the more important thing for moving into the Park Cities would not be the amount you make, but how you make it; specifically, if you have two working parents, it's going to be quite difficult to make connections in the Park Cities unless you already know people; if you have a working father and a super-mom, it's going to be much easier.
You cannot buy your way up the social ladder, but the more money you have coming in, the easier it will be to make those connections, even if you don't come from money. Additionally, for a newcomer, it really doesn't matter how you got the money or when you got it, but how you behave. If you behave like you're new money, you're not going to fit in in the Park Cities, regardless of whether you're Upper East Side or Boston Brahmin or First Families money or .com bubble money.
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So mega-money in HP/UP trumps being well-connected in HP/UP. I guess you CAN buy your way up the social ladder in HP/UP - it just takes a lot more $$$ than in the suburbs, and you keep the money in your wallet (except for the $1M+ you blew buying the HP/UP property). Perhaps the two places aren't so different after all. 
