05-13-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TennStud
Don't want to appear naive but I would like further explanation on this concept of buying a home in University Park or Highland Park is "just the price of admission"..
Obviously, the higher the value of the home,the higher the taxes. I know you know that part. Everyday living stuff is the same no matter where you are in Dallas - gas is gas, food is food, ballet lessons are ballet lessons kind of stuff.
I think what most mean by the "higher price of admission" is the extras - are you comfortable doing a "staycation" when your kid's friends go to the south of France for the summer? Will your kid be happy driving a used Toyota to school when their friends got a new BMW? Are Target clothes okay or does everything have to be "A" label from NorthPark mall? Can you serve the 2-buck-chuck wine without others peering down their nose at you?
Those kinds of things.
That said, with 3 kids who could potentially go to private school, HP/UP might be the right choice for you. My daughter goes to one of the less expensive privates in Dallas, but we still pay $12k/year. If you average that out for the more expensive schools, you could be spending close to $50k per year in school for your kids. Thats about $4k per month you could be putting towards a mortgage (or savings, vacations, etc). if you choose HP/UP.
Good luck!
05-13-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TennStud
Don't want to appear naive but I would like further explanation on this concept of buying a home in University Park or Highland Park is "just the price of admission". Especially from those that live in the area. I grew up in a similar environment (albiet another city)...but I don't remember that gas, groceries, clothing utility bills, automobile prices, etc were anymore expensive (I know property taxes will be). Can't I shop at Costco?? Or buy a used car?? Or is the real price of admission something like that movie where all the wives turn into robots?? Can't remember the name.
I grew up there and live nearby. Gas actually IS more expensive as there are only 2-3 gas stations there. But "the price of admission" we are referencing is an awareness of what is considered a "normal" lifestyle. Some examples include:
Popular summer camps for thousands of HPISD kids are Camp Longhorn, Waldemar, Mystic, & Kanakuk. They cost about $2,000-3,000 per week per child for a 3-6 week session. If 2 of your kids wanted to go to Longhorn with their friends, it will cost $12,000 per summer.
The "norm" is for high school girls to buy formal dance dresses at Neiman's. 2-3 dances per year times $300-500 adds up!
Many people do drive older cars, but by and large nearly every car is either a luxury brand (BMW, Lexus, Benz, Range Rover, etc) or a loaded SUV (Yukon, Tahoe, Suburban, etc). It's not a minivan & Honda kind of neighborhood. Most kids get a car at 16- either mom or dad's hand-me-down from the list above or a new one.
Most families have one of the following: an elite country club membership, a lakehouse/ranch, or a second home in Colorado/ NYC/ abroad. Some families have multiples.
There is a tremendous amount of parental pressure to give financially to the schools. HPISD is "property rich" according to the state of Texas and sends 70% of the property tax collections to the state for redistribution. Therefore the district runs on a very tight budget and depends on parents to fund 5%+ of the district's budget each year. It does not end with your property tax bill.
This is just a short list but hopefully gives you an idea. It is a wonderful community that bends over backwards for the schools & kids, but you need to understand your neighbors will be LOADED and you may not be able to "keep up"- and I don't mean match their cars or second homes, I mean accept a dinner invitation to a restaurant you can't afford.
There are many families who scrape by to live in HPISD for the schools, but know that your family will need to be ok with "beating to your own drum" if you can only afford the home and not the lifestyle, too.
It's hard to explain to an 8-y/o why she can't go to summer camp with her 5 best friends.
05-13-2011, 09:11 AM
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Thanks for your comments. Alot to consider. But don't you face the same issues if your kids go to private school?
05-13-2011, 09:23 AM
Location: Junius Heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TennStud
Thanks for your comments. Alot to consider. But don't you face the same issues if your kids go to private school?
Not as much. First of all the families entire social circle is less likely to revolve around the school than it is to revolve around the city you live in. Secondly my own experience in Private school was always that there are a significant number of kids either on financial aid of some sort (provided by the school or a third party) or whose parents are putting most of their income into educating their children. This puts some kind of brakes on the social expectations, or at least provides a large group of kids not living that life.
There will always be a majority of kids living the "Park Cities" kind of life style at a private school, but it isn't 100 percent, the kids know that, and the societal pressure isn't a the Park Cities level. Even if the pressure is high, at the end of the day the kids are going to come home to their neighborhood and things will change. They will have some neighborhood friends who aren't part of the ultra wealthy social life scene. That isn't true in the Park Cities.
Again that isn't to bash the Park Cities, for those that can afford it, and want that kind of social scene it is a great place, and the schools are fantastic, but it is a somewhat insular community with a set of societal expectations.
05-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Location: Simmering in DFW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TennStud
Thanks for your comments. Alot to consider. But don't you face the same issues if your kids go to private school?
I have three friends with daughters at Hockaday and my next door neighbor's 2 girls both go to Ursuline. None share the high lifestyle and all kids have tons of similar friends.
05-13-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TennStud
Thanks for your comments. Alot to consider. But don't you face the same issues if your kids go to private school?
Yes. I think there are social / financial challenges in every situation or solution. I do agree with what the other posters above me said, too. In a private school, I think there might be a larger mix which adds less social pressure, but I think it is still there to some degree.
05-13-2011, 09:31 AM
Location: Junius Heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TurtleCreek80
the district runs on a very tight budget and depends on parents to fund 5%+ of the district's budget each year. It does not end with your property tax bill.
Frankly I'm surprised the figure is that low. Sounds like they must make pretty effective use of their money. Granted they don't have many of the challenges of larger districts, but still. When I lived in Bartlesville Oklahoma for four years, they had to get more than this from parental donations.
05-13-2011, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Macbeth2003
Frankly I'm surprised the figure is that low. Sounds like they must make pretty effective use of their money. Granted they don't have many of the challenges of larger districts, but still. When I lived in Bartlesville Oklahoma for four years, they had to get more than this from parental donations.
The "Mad for Plaid" main fundraiser for the operating budget raises $2.5-3M each year.
Then there's the $350 mandatory ACE fee for every student athlete.
Then there are all the ad-hoc fundraisers- PTA's, Early Childhood PTA's, fundraisers for Belles, Band, Lads & Lassies, Cheerleaders, room mother support for teachers.
Then there's the volunteer man hours- parents serve & cashier at all 7 cafeterias every single day. They serve & cashier at every single high shook sporting event.
I'm sure I'm forgetting other things, but that's a good list!
05-13-2011, 09:51 AM
Location: la hacienda
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Besides great schools, you will get a walkable community with excellent city services - HP & UP have their own police and fire departments. There are many parks and UP has a great pool.
I have heard about 20% of Park Cities kids go to the private schools you are talking about as well as most of Preston Hollow. These are people that can afford high dollar houses as well as sending their kids to private schools, so you will run into the privaleged elite there as well.
05-13-2011, 09:52 AM
Location: Dallas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jennifw
Yes. I think there are social / financial challenges in every situation or solution. I do agree with what the other posters above me said, too. In a private school, I think there might be a larger mix which adds less social pressure, but I think it is still there to some degree.
Yes, this. We have lived in various socio-economic circles, and the pressures vary mostly as a function of how homeogenous the area is. If everyone has a high income, the pressures are higher. We sent our daughter to a very expensive Montessori school. Some people chose the school because it was the most expensive, and therefore must be the One. Others, like us, saw the educatinoal value as above other choices. They scrimped and saved to send their kid there. While there were big donors there (kids art pieces went for thousands of dollars at the fund raising art auction) not everyone had that kind of money. It makes a difference. We have been in public schools where everyone, except a very small percentage, had oodles of money, or at least spent like they did. The pressures were much greater there, and my older daughters, and I didn't like it. My husband was able to shrug it all off.
It just depends on how sensitive you are. Or if your kids excel at sports, they won't feel the pressure as much, because they will have their status and identity based on this.
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People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)