Mckinney Allen Dart Mass Transit? (Dallas, Garland: city hall, transfer to, to buy)

[Synopsis]

I think it's something that should be voted on by the citizens of the area. If they approve, more power to them; if they disapprove, the same. I'm all for public transportation and it's not socialism - it's just a great, efficient way to get around. I lived in Germany for several years and good public transportation is cheap, clean, good for the environment and has so many pluses. But, it shouldn't be imposed on those who don't want it.

[aceplace]

I had a neighbor once who complained about paying school taxes. He explained that he was retired, his children were grown, why should he pay for schools?

My reply to him was... why do we pay taxes to fund prisons? I'm an honest man, I'm not likely to go to prison, and my children and friends are not likely to go to prison either. Why should I pay for prisons?

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by aceplace

I had a neighbor once who complained about paying school taxes. He explained that he was retired, his children were grown, why should he pay for schools?

My reply to him was... why do we pay taxes to fund prisons? I'm an honest man, I'm not likely to go to prison, and my children and friends are not likely to go to prison either. Why should I pay for prisons?

Not exactly good corollaries... all of society benefits from roads, schools and the justice system. It is very questionable that all of society benefits from mass transit systems.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by cdelena

Not exactly good corollaries... all of society benefits from roads, schools and the justice system. It is very questionable that all of society benefits from mass transit systems.

Society benefits from transit systems in exactly the same way that it benefits from urban freeways.

In practice, it is impossible to portion out the benefit I receive from a particular school system. Or a prison or a road.

I don't directly benefit from I45 because I never drive on it. But I benefit indirectly, because the freeway carries people to and from work, and their work enhances the economy, and the enhanced economy benefits me. It is impossible or impractical, however, to calculate and seperately bill each beneficiary for his share of the indirect benefits of I45, so the freeway is paid for by general taxation, thru a gasoline tax.

What is true for I45 is also true for the DART Red line. It carries people to work and enhances the economy that benefits me. In terms of the final effect, it doesn't matter to me whether the worker drove on a freeway to get to work, took a DART train, or walked. I enjoy an enriched economy regardless of the source of transportation.

There will be taxation to support the DART system. That is inescapable. Given that dismal fact of life, would you rather the tax be in the form of a sales tax, that you can easily circumvent by trading in a non-DART city, or in the form of a property tax, that you cannot escape?

So... if you really begrudge DART the six pennies sales tax for a six dollar six-pack of beer, if it's really that much of an insult... just drive all the way to Garland or Frisco for that six-pack, and thumb your nose at DART.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

I think it's something that should be voted on by the citizens of the area. If they approve, more power to them; if they disapprove, the same. I'm all for public transportation and it's not socialism - it's just a great, efficient way to get around. I lived in Germany for several years and good public transportation is cheap, clean, good for the environment and has so many pluses. But, it shouldn't be imposed on those who don't want it.

I agree that mass transit is a better and more convenient way to get around in a city.

Shouldn't be imposed on people who don't want it? Do you mean people shouldn't be forced by the police to ride DART to work? Or do you mean that people who don't want to pay the tax shouldn't have to?

If the second meaning is what you intended, I can agree. I shouldn't be forced to pay income taxes to the IRS if I don't want to. But I'm not holding my breath for that one. As for DART taxes, no one is forced to pay them, since everyone has the option of purchasing goods in cities that do not collect the DART sales tax.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by CallMeLaura

I didn't say that I thought it was risky because it looks shabby. I think the area IS risky because I've worked there for a decade now...

You mean that there is a cause and effect relationship between your occupation and crime on Harry Hines? You've worked at it long enough to make the place pretty risky? If you've gotten away with it for a decade, you must be pretty good at it. What sort of work do you do, Laura? Dipping into people's pockets? Muggings? Murder for hire? Or just simple car breakins?

Yes, a lot of the crime is car break ins.

No, just working inside the Infomart doesn't automatically confer knowledge into your head about the theft and violence on Harry Hines Boulevard. The only way you could know how many rapes there were in 2005 on the stretch of road behind the building would be by standing on the street every day and taking notes, or by reading police reports of reported rapes. Not by sitting in a cubicle all day.

What you probably do, in fact, is listen to your co-workers fancies, rumors, suspicions, innuendoes, predjudices, etc. That is a particularly deluded form of reality, as most of us know.

In practice, that area should have a low incidence of crime because it is so depopulated. There are few, if any, victims walking around... hence very few rapists and muggers loitering on the corner waiting for a victim. Car breakins in a parking lot are a different matter, but you escape that jeapordy by taking a DART bus to work. Make it the #49 that drops you off at the front door, and your personal security improves. Unless the front door of the Infomart is a high crime area.

[CallMeLaura]

Originally Posted by aceplace

You mean that there is a cause and effect relationship between your occupation and crime on Harry Hines?

Ok, that sentence was poorly constructed. I'm sure this is the first example you've ever seen of that on a message board...

Originally Posted by aceplace

No, just working inside the Infomart doesn't automatically confer knowledge into your head about the theft and violence on Harry Hines Boulevard. The only way you could know how many rapes there were in 2005 on the stretch of road behind the building would be by standing on the street every day and taking notes, or by reading police reports of reported rapes. Not by sitting in a cubicle all day.

What you probably do, in fact, is listen to your co-workers fancies, rumors, suspicions, innuendoes, predjudices, etc. That is a particularly deluded form of reality, as most of us know.

You're right, just working there doesn't. However, speaking with the head of security at the Infomart and local peace officers can't be considered gossip.

I think you might be projecting. Most rapes do not have witnesses, and I might care about robbery or assault, or any type of crime that is committed in the area. Which the local police would be familiar with.

Perhaps, if you feel Oak Lawn is such a bastion of safety, you could provide your own statistics?

Originally Posted by aceplace

In practice, that area should have a low incidence of crime because it is so depopulated. There are few, if any, victims walking around... hence very few rapists and muggers loitering on the corner waiting for a victim. Car breakins in a parking lot are a different matter, but you escape that jeapordy by taking a DART bus to work. Make it the #49 that drops you off at the front door, and your personal security improves. Unless the front door of the Infomart is a high crime area.

Did you miss the part where I said a security guard had been killed in the parking lot? Does that sound terribly safe to you?

Your theory is great, but the local security and law enforcement professionals feel differently. I talked to some of them. I've had them insist on accompanying me to my car because they were worried about my safety.

And what makes you think the transfer locations are any safer? Thieves know that cars in the Park & Rides are going to be vulnerable for a good part of the day. Some of them can probably even read schedules.

So, my car is just vulnerable in a different lot. I now have at least four transfer points, instead of just two, plus I'm surrounded by strangers part of the trip. How exactly does that lower my risk of crime?

I'm not against public transportation. I would even be willing to use it if it became a better option. We all have different priorities, and paying for public transportation is not on my list right now.

[mckinneydeb]

I attended all of the city's Town Center studies which focused on revitalization of the downtown corridor and the Hwy 5/380 corridor. A lot of attention was given to changing the face of the Hwy 5 businesses to make the drive more "asthetically pleasing" as this was to be considered the main way into downtown. All of the meetings included plans for some form of public rail transportation. One of the facilitators stated "it's not if there is going to be a public rail system in McKinney, it's when". Plans are for the primary depot to be just about a block or so east of Hwy 5. However, it was stressed that this probably wouldn't happen for many years (10 or more).

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by CallMeLaura

You're right, just working there doesn't. However, speaking with the head of security at the Infomart and local peace officers can't be considered gossip.

On the contrary, Laura, that's exactly what gossip is. An exchange of horror stories. Usually out of context.

I think you might be projecting. Most rapes do not have witnesses, and I might care about robbery or assault, or any type of crime that is committed in the area. Which the local police would be familiar with.

Perhaps, if you feel Oak Lawn is such a bastion of safety, you could provide your own statistics?

The issue is not crime in Oak Lawn in general, but the degree of risk you take in the immediate environs of the Infomart. I think you're exaggerating the degree of physical danger you face when you walk into the building, or walk around it. The #49 bus puts you at the front door. Do you face a 10% chance of being murdered every day? If so, you'd be dead in two weeks.

Did you miss the part where I said a security guard had been killed in the parking lot? Does that sound terribly safe to you?

One isolated incident does not constitute a trend. How many security guards are killed every month? Also, are you a security guard? Or if not, how many people who work in the Infomart are murdered every month?

Your theory is great, but the local security and law enforcement professionals feel differently. I talked to some of them. I've had them insist on accompanying me to my car because they were worried about my safety.

I don't know what you're talking about. When I worked there, women I worked with did not need armed escorts to the parking lot. In fact, if the parking lots were full of violent criminals, armed muggers as well as rapists would be lying in wait for victims. Men as well as women would need armed escorts to protect themselves from armed robbery. Is that the case?

And what makes you think the transfer locations are any safer? Thieves know that cars in the Park & Rides are going to be vulnerable for a good part of the day. Some of them can probably even read schedules.

You're being irrational. If the general population thought that parking in a DART lot in Plano was unsafe, they wouldn't be so full of cars.

So, my car is just vulnerable in a different lot. I now have at least four transfer points, instead of just two, plus I'm surrounded by strangers part of the trip. How exactly does that lower my risk of crime?

You do not face a meaningful risk of injury or death when riding DART. If there were such a drastic risk, the trains would be almost empty during rush hour. As it happens, they're filled during rush hour, and the parking lots are filled. Obviously the general public does not share your paranoia.

I'm not against public transportation. I would even be willing to use it if it became a better option. We all have different priorities, and paying for public transportation is not on my list right now.

I see no way in which any transit agency could address and satisfy your state of fear. Fortunately for the cause of mass transit, the vast majority of the riding public thinks differently than you. I don't see that any future McKinney transit agency needs your vote.

[Lakewooder]

Since when are the men in Oak Lawn after women?