DFW vs Salt Lake City (sales, house, income)

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

The folks in DFW are nice, the jobs are plenty, and the houses are cheap,
but it comes with a tradeoff.

Traffic sucks. About 2/3 of the population of the metroplex lives in the suburbs, not "inside 635" which is the common retort from locals toward people who complain about traffic. Also, because wintry weather is infrequent here, the area is completely ill-prepared for even the most run-of-the-mill winter storm. 3 inches of snow can have a paralyzing effect.

Summers blow. 100+ is not a rarity, it's an expected occurrence. The forecast highs for the next week - 99, 100, 100, 100, 101, 103, 100. Overnight lows will be in the low-mid 80s and the temp won't fall out of the 90s until midnight or later. So even if the nightlife here is better than Salt Lake you'll be spending a majority of your time inside.

The public education system in Texas is below average as well. Texas routinely ranks near the top in terms of dropout rate and near the bottom in college placement scores.

Thanks for the input on the schools, we know there's no such thing as perfect, but compared to the NYC school system (which not only sucks, but resembles a demilitarized zone) there's nowhere to go but up We're also not the kind of peeps to dump our kid on the public school system and not do any childrearing ourselves. We deeply value education, manners and structure, and will do whatever we must to make sure our kid/s are doing well in school- helping with homework, encouraging creativity, reading books, fostering interest in the sciences, etc...

One of the major reasons for moving from NYC is that it is not the best environment to raise a kid or send them to school (unless you can afford private school at 45k a head)...

Thanks for the heads up on Traffic. If we moved to Dallas we'd be in the Grapevine/flower mound/Irvine area. We've already visited North Dallas once, while the traffic was a bit bad it was nowhere close to NYC rush hour traffic, so while traffic sucks no matter where you go, we'd be trading up in our case.

[padcrasher]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

The folks in DFW are nice, the jobs are plenty, and the houses are cheap,
but it comes with a tradeoff.

Traffic sucks. About 2/3 of the population of the metroplex lives in the suburbs, not "inside 635" which is the common retort from locals toward people who complain about traffic. Also, because wintry weather is infrequent here, the area is completely ill-prepared for even the most run-of-the-mill winter storm. 3 inches of snow can have a paralyzing effect.

Summers blow. 100+ is not a rarity, it's an expected occurrence. The forecast highs for the next week - 99, 100, 100, 100, 101, 103, 100. Overnight lows will be in the low-mid 80s and the temp won't fall out of the 90s until midnight or later. So even if the nightlife here is better than Salt Lake you'll be spending a majority of your time inside.

The public education system in Texas is below average as well. Texas routinely ranks near the top in terms of dropout rate and near the bottom in college placement scores.

You're comparing Apples and Oranges. ...Utah is 85% white with an average ACT score of 21.8. ...Grapevine-Colleyville ISD is 72% white and with an average ACT of 24.1

So who's overachieving here?

I don't think the OP is going to live in colonia on the border....lol

[slo1318]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

You're comparing Apples and Oranges. ...Utah is 85% white with an average ACT score of 21.8. ...Grapevine-Colleyville ISD is 72% white and with an average ACT of 24.1

So who's overachieving here?

I don't think the OP is going to live in colonia on the border....lol

way to cherry pick!!

[padcrasher]

Originally Posted by slo1318

way to cherry pick!!

Please give me a district with 85% white and I'll show you a district that far exceeds Utah's scores. I've tried to find one..

Nice list here.

Allen ISD 68% white. I hope that's down to earth enough for you?...lol

http://www.republictitle.com/outbound/ResGuide/Section%2004%20-%20School-Scores.pdf (broken link)

[hominid4]

Originally Posted by Alkonost

Boise sounds great! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on SLC. Boise would be on our list, only we really do have to be within a half hour of a major international airport.

Definitely makes sense! Boise airport is so easy to fly in/out of and just a 45min flight to SLC but know what you mean! You'd be hard press though to find a better place to raise a family, beautiful mild weather in every season, although it does get hot here in July but 10-15% humidity when it is that hot - in the shade it feels really nice and drops 30 degrees at night. I can answer any Boise question and have tons of photos I've taken, but with ya coming from NYC, Boise may be too small of a city, and as you said not the airport you need.

Originally Posted by Alkonost

While I love snow and the change of seasons, if we moved to SLC I doubt we'd take advantage of the outdoor resources that if we moved there- we're not outdoors-y people

You may love living in SLC and be right up your alley but with this being out of the equation it seems Dallas would be much of a better choice for your family.

Originally Posted by Alkonost

Hubs and I aren't worried with getting along with neighbors, but we are worried about our kid growing up in SLC and being excluded in some social ways. We don't want him/her (whatever the case will be) to not be able to get a prom date over the religion issue, or feel pressured to join LDS to fit in (I had religion forced down my throat, I would like to spare my kid from that pain).

The Mormons we met over the years here in Boise (2nd largest population next to SLC) are always extremely nice, VERY giving, and have never forced religion on us or the kids (our kids were 3rd and 6th grade when we moved here). Our neighbors who are Mormon are one of our best friends here, they're our board game playing partners. But LDS is such a hard line different culture/life than non-LDS, it's always present, they have their own set of strict rules, and even though they don't necessarily purposely do it they have their own "group" and everyone else is outside of that. That's fine for us adults but it's the same at school, the LDS kids hang together and all other kids are outside of that group. They're not mean about it (from what we witnessed), just how it is. I have heard stories of how at SLC schools some LDS kids shun non-LDS but wouldn't know that first hand; just what others told us when we were researching it. We've discussed this with our Mormon friends and even they agree, there again not them being mean, just reality. Even though Boise has a large Mormon population there are so many California, Nevada, and elsewhere, transplants that it's well balance.

[flyfishingjones]

A couple of opinions based on my experience (I've lived in both places for many years).

The weather is better in Utah. Now, we like TX weather, but most people like 4 seasons, and as winters go - Rocky Mountain winters are way easier than NE winters (I've lived in Maine as well). the summers here are hot, but the humidity relative to the east coast is actually not that bad.

The schools are better in DFW. Whoever told you the overall school system in UT is better is not being totally honest. There are good schools, like anywhere, but overall the schools get less funding and are less rigorous acedemically.

The outdoor stuff around SLC is great, but the city amenities are "meh". So its a bit of a trade-off.

The air pollution in the SLC valley can be as bad as LA. Its not constant, but a lot of folks don't realize how poor the air quality can get because of "inversion". It's really bad sometimes. That may or may not be an issue for you, but just thought I'd mention it.

Traffic - if you have to commute on a freeway in UT, its every bit as bad or worse than TX. Sure, theres not as many people, but there are only 3 real freeways there, and only one north / south freeway, and its a disaster during rush hours with no alternatives. So avoid a long freeway commute there (just like you would here in TX).

Culture - don't underestimate the mormon culture there, but don't worry about it either. Your kids will be fine, not excluded, and the population is at least 50% non mormon anyway. But you will see the influence of the religion there. Its like the weather - its there, you can't do anything about it, so how you deal with it and how it impacts you is up to you. But frankly, I'd say that should be the least of your location considerations.

Housing costs are a little higher in UT, there is state income tax, and property taxes are around 1 - 1.5% (vs 2-2.5 in TX). Other costs are similar (gas, power, etc).

One other consideration - the job market is different in UT than TX. There are not many "large" companies and businesses based in UT - a lot of their job market is smaller companies.

Anyway, hope this helps, good luck with the decision. In the end, you probably can't go wrong either way - both great places to live.

[mSooner]

We have several Mormon friends that moved from Utah to Texas for med school last year--they LOVED Texas in the winter/spring, but are not digging it right now. Missed the autumn, too. (Ours isn't much)

So you will probably like Salt Lake's weather better.

[TrueDat]

Actually, I think fall is the best time in North Texas. From roughly late September through Christmas, it's generally pretty nice with some gorgeous days and less of a chance of tornadoes than in the spring. In January, it starts to get cold. (It always seems to be freezing when the Stock Show in Fort Worth starts!)

[ggolf]

I was transferred to SLC in 1991 from Dallas. For me, a single 30 something at the time, I was miserable. Mormons are nice, but like some other religions they prefer to keep with their own kind. Human nature to hang with someone you're comfortable with. Hard to start a business if you're not LDS as they will boycott you in favor of owners who are LDS. State owned liquor stores are inconvenient and expensive.
Only complaints about DFW are summer weather, sprawl, drivers, summer weather.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by ggolf

Hard to start a business if you're not LDS as they will boycott you in favor of owners who are LDS.

I'm LDS and I don't know of a single LDS person who even checks out the religion of a business owner before giving him his business. I can't even imagine such a thing. I don't know the religion of my carpet cleaner, my veterinarian or my accountant and I don't care. Obviously, if I knew an electrician through my Church activities, and needed some electrical work done, I'd probably go to him. If that qualifies as boycotting, then it happens among people of all faiths.