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Old 07-30-2011, 04:17 PM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,965,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Cite?

You'd think this would be true, but history argues otherwise. Consider Ford, Edison, Dell, Jobs - all those guys were complete duffers in school.
In recent history nearly all significant contributors have done well academically. I don't know anything about Michael Dell. However, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are both really smart people who chose to drop out. They were not overwhelmed by school. Anyway folks like Jobs are the exceptions that prove the rule.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,078 posts, read 3,636,862 times
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Some observations on the grouped data above:

1) For middle school and above, the school's ranking seems to be largely determined by its feeder schools. The only 2 exemplary middle schools have all exemplary elementary feeders. Every middle school with even a single academically acceptable feeder is also ranked academically acceptable.

The outliers to this pattern are Wilson and Bowman (academically acceptable, even though all feeders are recognized), Murphy (recognized, even though all feeders are exemplary) and the 3 senior highs (recognized, with academically acceptable feeders - that might be due to the nuances of a 2-year school being ranked by TAKS).

2) Optimal paths for each area:

PWSH: Skaggs, Andrews, Wyatt, Bethany, Carlisle, or Mathews/Rice or Schimelpfenig/Jasper/PWSH
PSHS: Hughston, Saigling, or Wells/Haggard/Vines/PSHS
PESH: Boggess, Hunt, or Miller/Murphy/McMillen/PESH

3) Biggest underperformer: Has to be Renner. This school has probably over half of all the $1M+ homes in PISD. (Frankford has a fair number of Far North Dallas mansions, and Murphy, Wilson, and Bowman have a very small handful - from Murphy, Richardson, and Parker, respectively.). Yet it's smoked in the rankings by the upper-middle class ($300K-$500K) areas of Rice, Robinson, and Murphy, the middle-class ($200K-$300K) area of Schimelpfenig, and even the lower-middle class ($150K-$200K) area of Haggard. What's up with that?
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,078 posts, read 3,636,862 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
In recent history nearly all significant contributors have done well academically.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO, that's just not true. (See Wikipedia cites below.)

Politics? Uh, no.

Joe Biden
Quote:
Biden attended the Archmere Academy in Claymont,[13] where he was a standout halfback/wide receiver on the high school football team; he helped lead a perennially losing team to an undefeated season in his senior year.[10][14] He played on the baseball team as well.[10] During these years, he participated in an anti-segregation sit-in at a Wilmington theatre.[15] Academically, Biden was undistinguished,[10] but he was a natural leader among the students.[16] He graduated in 1961.[13]

Biden attended the University of Delaware in Newark, where he was more interested in sports and socializing than in studying,[10] although his classmates were impressed by his cramming abilities.[15] He played halfback with the Blue Hens freshman football team,[14] but he dropped a junior year plan to play for the varsity team as a defensive back, enabling him to spend more time with his out-of-state girlfriend.[14][17] He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts with a double major in history and political science in 1965,[1] ranked 506th of 688 in his class.[18]
Colin Powell
Quote:
He received his Bachelor of Science degree in geology from the City College of New York in 1958 and was a self-admitted C average student.
Ripped from today's headlines!

John Boehner
Quote:
He earned his B.A. in business administration from Xavier University in 1977, becoming the first person in his family to attend college, taking seven years as he held several jobs to pay for his education.[6]

Shortly after his graduation in 1977, Boehner accepted a position with Nucite Sales, a small sales business in the packaging and plastics industry. He was steadily promoted and eventually became president of the firm, resigning in 1990 when he was elected to Congress.[4]
Harry Reid
Quote:
Reid was born in Searchlight, Nevada, the third of the four sons of Inez Orena Jaynes, a laundress, and Harry Vincent Reid, a miner.[1] His paternal grandmother was an Englishwoman immigrant from Darlston, Staffordshire. [2]Reid's boyhood home had no indoor toilet, hot water or telephone.[1] Searchlight had no high school, so Reid boarded with relatives 40 miles away in Henderson, Nevada to attend Basic High School[1] where he played football, and was an amateur boxer.[3] While at Basic High he met future Nevada governor Mike O'Callaghan, who was a teacher there. Reid attended Southern Utah University and graduated from Utah State University.
Yeah, those two sound like academic all-stars - just maybe a notch or two below a Harvard MBA. More likely, their hard-knock lives have given them insight far beyond that of some kid who can easily devote 5 or 6 hours a night grinding HW assignments to make the top 10%.

OK, how about the world of entertainment? Guess again.

James Cameron
Quote:
Cameron grew up in Chippawa, Ontario with his brother Davie Cameron and attended Stamford Collegiate School in Niagara Falls; his family moved to Brea, California in 1971 when he was 17.[11] Cameron enrolled at Fullerton College, a 2-year community college, in 1973 to study physics. He switched to English, then dropped out before the start of the fall 1974 semester.[12]


After seeing the original Star Wars film in 1977, Cameron quit his job as a truck driver to enter the film industry.
What about becoming a billionaire? Surely you have be an A student to make that happen, right? Wrong.

Larry Ellison
Quote:
Ellison was a bright but inattentive student. He left the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign at the end of his second year, after not taking his final exams because his adoptive mother had just died.
Sheldon Adelson
Quote:
Adelson went to college at City College of New York but did not complete a degree there.


If anything, the lesson is that you should encourage your kids to drop out of school.

Obviously, I'm joking about that. I've also left out those who were academic high performers, like Larry Page and Warren Buffett. But the point is, it's NOT always (or even usually) the academic cream of the crop that "change the world". Those are singular people, and they are found all along the spectrum of academic performance, not just at the top.

It's dangerous to focus just on the top tier academically, especially at younger ages. Academic performance is just a small part of what makes someone potentially successful. You really never know who will make it big.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:45 PM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,965,873 times
Reputation: 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. IMO, that's just not true. (See Wikipedia cites below.)

Politics? Uh, no.

Joe Biden


Colin Powell


Ripped from today's headlines!

John Boehner


Harry Reid


Yeah, those two sound like academic all-stars - just maybe a notch or two below a Harvard MBA. More likely, their hard-knock lives have given them insight far beyond that of some kid who can easily devote 5 or 6 hours a night grinding HW assignments to make the top 10%.

OK, how about the world of entertainment? Guess again.

James Cameron


What about becoming a billionaire? Surely you have be an A student to make that happen, right? Wrong.

Larry Ellison


Sheldon Adelson




If anything, the lesson is that you should encourage your kids to drop out of school.

Obviously, I'm joking about that. I've also left out those who were academic high performers, like Larry Page and Warren Buffett. But the point is, it's NOT always (or even usually) the academic cream of the crop that "change the world". Those are singular people, and they are found all along the spectrum of academic performance, not just at the top.

It's dangerous to focus just on the top tier academically, especially at younger ages. Academic performance is just a small part of what makes someone potentially successful. You really never know who will make it big.

Go ahead and spend hours trying to find a few dozen recent game changers who were not excellent students or simply brilliant.

Einstein
Fermi
Planck
von Braun
Rickover
Salk
Keynes
Nash
Friedman
It took me about ten seconds to type that list.

Next time you need a surgeon be sure and find one who does not have any degrees and finished in the bottom quarter of his high school class.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,078 posts, read 3,636,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Go ahead and spend hours trying to find a few dozen recent game changers who were not excellent students or simply brilliant.

Well, I believe I just did. Although it was minutes, not hours. And you're moving the goalposts by demanding I produce "a few dozen" examples. The several prominent examples I cited (C'mon! The VP of the USA? The heads of the House and the Senate? The producer of Titanic and Avatar? 2 of the 10 richest people in the USA?) should be enough to refute the claim that "nearly all" significant contributors did well academically as youths.

I'll even toss you some ammo. If I'm being honest, about half the incredibly successful people I suspected (off the top of my head) of being poor students were, in fact, good or excellent students as youths. Then again, half of them actually were "no great shakes" in the classroom. That's not "nearly all".

Quote:
Einstein
Fermi
Planck
von Braun
Rickover
Salk
Keynes
Nash
Friedman
These guys are all dead, some for over 50 years. What happened to "recent game changers"? Anyway, I'll grant you all those. Certain fields have barriers to entry (medical school, graduate school) that preclude academic underachievers from entering. Fields that don't (such as literature, politics, the military, business, entertainment, music) have superstars whose book learning skills run the full gamut. It's certainly an advantage to be "book smart", but it's not a requirement.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:05 AM
 
863 posts, read 1,031,650 times
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Good points about Plano....Comparing Plano to Allen,Frisco,Prosper,Fairview,Southlake,Flower Mound,Coppell etc,there is a major difference in Demographic.Plano is by no means what it was 20 years ago.There are many low income areas within Plano ISD and a high number of ESL students in the district.I am not sure why people think that Plano is an affluent area with little diversity.Certain neighborhoods in west Plano are considered affluent.Plano has a mass amount of low cost apartments available within the city.When we first moved to Texas and drove around Plano I remember thinking that I have never seen a suburb with so many apartment complexes.This does impact school ratings.Yes these ratings may be questionable to begin with,but in Dfw schools really do drive home prices and impact where people decide to buy.

I just saw that KELLER ISD got academically acceptable.I wonder if they will still charge for bus service ?
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,078 posts, read 3,636,862 times
Reputation: 1804
With Plano, it's almost as if it were designed by someone playing Sim City. I can imagine someone drawing out Plano's 6-lane road grid system, then just zoning different squares of the city for maximum points. Commercial, Industrial, Office Parks, High-End Residential, Multi-Familiy Housing, etc. Plano has a space for everything.

The goal was to create a suburb that also functioned as a stand-alone city. If that's done right, that means there has to be a place for the streetsweepers to live in that same city.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:25 AM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,965,873 times
Reputation: 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW747 View Post
Good points about Plano....Comparing Plano to Allen,Frisco,Prosper,Fairview,Southlake,Flower Mound,Coppell etc,there is a major difference in Demographic.Plano is by no means what it was 20 years ago.There are many low income areas within Plano ISD and a high number of ESL students in the district.I am not sure why people think that Plano is an affluent area with little diversity.Certain neighborhoods in west Plano are considered affluent.Plano has a mass amount of low cost apartments available within the city.When we first moved to Texas and drove around Plano I remember thinking that I have never seen a suburb with so many apartment complexes.This does impact school ratings.Yes these ratings may be questionable to begin with,but in Dfw schools really do drive home prices and impact where people decide to buy.

I just saw that KELLER ISD got academically acceptable.I wonder if they will still charge for bus service ?
To reiterate a point that I like to make, Plano has, according to the last income rankings I saw, the highest per-capita income of any city in the US over 250,000 people. If it's not #1 anymore it's close. That means Plano is one of the richest cities in the world. That said any city of that size, ~260,000, is going to have pockets of economic underachievers and some truly disadvantaged.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:29 AM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,965,873 times
Reputation: 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
With Plano, it's almost as if it were designed by someone playing Sim City. I can imagine someone drawing out Plano's 6-lane road grid system, then just zoning different squares of the city for maximum points. Commercial, Industrial, Office Parks, High-End Residential, Multi-Familiy Housing, etc. Plano has a space for everything.

The goal was to create a suburb that also functioned as a stand-alone city. If that's done right, that means there has to be a place for the streetsweepers to live in that same city.
I think that's pretty much right on.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: DFW Metroplex. Not TX-born but never leaving.
288 posts, read 267,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
To reiterate a point that I like to make, Plano has, according to the last income rankings I saw, the highest per-capita income of any city in the US over 250,000 people. If it's not #1 anymore it's close. That means Plano is one of the richest cities in the world. That said any city of that size, ~260,000, is going to have pockets of economic underachievers and some truly disadvantaged.
But it's not just pockets, it's fairly large areas. Then there is average income vs median income. Plano is pretty dang diverse. I spend a lot of time in the schools there.
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