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Old 09-16-2011, 06:59 PM
 
17 posts, read 15,357 times
Reputation: 52

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Here on an anonymous message board, people are perfectly free to spout high-minded idealism about diversity and to denounce the OP with name-calling.

But if you look at people with some skin in the game -- deciding where to buy a house and educate their children -- "good schools" correlates almost perfectly with "fewer blacks and Hispanics."

Importantly, this is very much the case in the bastions of liberalism -- Manhattan private schools, Boston suburbs, etc. They work hard to be "diverse," by including a carefully screened and selected set of black and Hispanic students, they inculcate diversity dogma in their students, but under no circumstances would they admit a majority-black/Hispanic class.

The liberal activist judge who integrated Boston public schools, destroying its neighborhoods, did so from the comfort and security of majority-white, affluent Wellesley.

Let's see... do Sasha and Malia Obama attend the majority-black DC public schools? Are you kidding me? The black and Hispanic elite doesn't want to send their kids to a majority-black/Hispanic school any more than the liberal white elite. However, they're happy to dictate what the middle class should have to put up with.

Occam's razor would suggest the blindingly obvious proposition that: just as on average men are taller than women, and on average Canadians are wealthier than Brazilians, so too are Ashkenazi Jews on average smarter than Southern Baptists, and whites on average smarter than blacks.

But since the entire establishment is convinced that anyone who considers this blindingly obvious truth is one step away from instigating mass pogroms and lynchings, it's necessary to come up with increasingly implausible scenarios arguing that somewhere there's a test and a curriculum that will Close the Gap. Good luck with that!


"Mainstream Science on Intelligence" (1997)
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...mainstream.pdf

To support the proposition that "lack of resources is not the problem," there's pretty much too much evidence to count.

Washington Post on (old regime) DC Public Schools
Can D.C. Schools Be Fixed?
Fixing D.C.'s Schools (washingtonpost.com)

Quote:
The District spends $12,979 per pupil each year, ranking it third-highest among the 100 largest districts in the nation. But most of that money does not get to the classroom. D.C. schools rank first in the share of the budget spent on administration, last in spending on teachers and instruction.
Cato Institute on Kansas City
Money And School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

Quote:
Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.

 
Old 09-17-2011, 10:52 AM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,040,025 times
Reputation: 1473
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubeaux View Post
You must be tired all the time. Face it, you're too lazy to make the effort or simply not capable of engaging in a real debate, so you drag out Adolf's maunderings and a little wordy gibberish of your own to sound....what? Pseudo-intellectual for you would be a compliment.

Posts like yours do me the favor of illuminating the comically impoverished nature of the opposition. So thanks for that.

Auf wiedersehen.
If only it were that simple. I actually have a copy of Mein Kampf in my library. And while it's fairly horrific, there are lessons to be learned from it...mostly so that it can never happer again...nie wieder.

It's not just money spent per pupil. It's not just SES. It's a complex interaction involving the parenting, are the kids comfortable at their school, are the kids eating at home, do the kids have side jobs, do the kids have electricity, do the teachers push and expect the same of all kids regardless of color?

But don't worry. When China makes the margin call on all the US dept they hold, they'll cut out the problem like cancer, so smile.
 
Old 09-17-2011, 04:30 PM
 
79 posts, read 120,947 times
Reputation: 106
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganongrey View Post
If only it were that simple. I actually have a copy of Mein Kampf in my library. And while it's fairly horrific, there are lessons to be learned from it...mostly so that it can never happer again...nie wieder.
That's nice you have a copy of MK. And if I had a nickel for every time I've seen or heard this statement...I'd have a lot of nickels.

Quote:
It's not just money spent per pupil. It's not just SES. It's a complex interaction involving the parenting, are the kids comfortable at their school, are the kids eating at home, do the kids have side jobs, do the kids have electricity, do the teachers push and expect the same of all kids regardless of color?
All true, to some extent. But race IS a factor; IQ IS a factor. The fact that white working class kids score higher on the SAT than black professional class kids reflects this. The fact that Asian immigrants, including poor families, are able to figure out this "complex interaction" and send kids to school who score higher than blacks OR whites reflects this as well.

Quote:
But don't worry. When China makes the margin call on all the US dept they hold, they'll cut out the problem like cancer, so smile.

I'll smile if our future Chinese overlords make us abolish the Department of Education, and affirmative action programs across the board, to qualify for future loans.
 
Old 09-18-2011, 01:11 AM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,040,025 times
Reputation: 1473
The SAT is but one metric. Using my N=1, I excelled at the test, 1490 without actually studying. Still, I was prepped from 8th grade on for the test. The SAT measures one, narrow type of intelligence and has little predictive value after college.

Asians are more easily assimilated into America. As are Indians.

And one last time, affirmative action does not exist...unless you went to SMU...
 
Old 09-18-2011, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
15,821 posts, read 14,093,074 times
Reputation: 13079
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganongrey View Post
The SAT is but one metric. Using my N=1, I excelled at the test, 1490 without actually studying. Still, I was prepped from 8th grade on for the test. The SAT measures one, narrow type of intelligence and has little predictive value after college.

Asians are more easily assimilated into America. As are Indians.

And one last time, affirmative action does not exist...unless you went to SMU...
Affirmative action does, or at least did, exist...but its main beneficiaries were white women, statistically speaking.
 
Old 09-18-2011, 09:39 AM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,040,025 times
Reputation: 1473
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Affirmative action does, or at least did, exist...but its main beneficiaries were white women, statistically speaking.
I know the stats. But people act as though affirmative action goes like this scenario-

"I'm applying to Harvard"

"Sir you can't even color inside the lines and your application is in crayon"

"I'm Black (asian,indian, native american)..."

"Well why didn't you say so, you're in. We'll see what we can do about getting you into a Finals Club early"

"Thanks"
 
Old 09-18-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
15,821 posts, read 14,093,074 times
Reputation: 13079
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganongrey View Post
I know the stats. But people act as though affirmative action goes like this scenario-

"I'm applying to Harvard"

"Sir you can't even color inside the lines and your application is in crayon"

"I'm Black (asian,indian, native american)..."

"Well why didn't you say so, you're in. We'll see what we can do about getting you into a Finals Club early"

"Thanks"
Hopefully nobody is dumb enough to believe that that is really how it goes, but you know how some people are.
 
Old 09-18-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Trans-Pecos Texas
8,819 posts, read 12,110,313 times
Reputation: 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candide1776 View Post
Here on an anonymous message board, people are perfectly free to spout high-minded idealism about diversity and to denounce the OP with name-calling.

But if you look at people with some skin in the game -- deciding where to buy a house and educate their children -- "good schools" correlates almost perfectly with "fewer blacks and Hispanics."

Importantly, this is very much the case in the bastions of liberalism -- Manhattan private schools, Boston suburbs, etc. They work hard to be "diverse," by including a carefully screened and selected set of black and Hispanic students, they inculcate diversity dogma in their students, but under no circumstances would they admit a majority-black/Hispanic class........
I very much agree.

However, in the face of such blunt honesty outside of an internet message board, you would be branded a racist instantly.

Nobody wants to acknowledge any of this, and the blatant hypocrisy shown by the liberal elite is glossed over or ignored entirely.
 
Old 09-18-2011, 12:48 PM
 
79 posts, read 120,947 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganongrey View Post
The SAT is but one metric. Using my N=1, I excelled at the test, 1490 without actually studying. Still, I was prepped from 8th grade on for the test.
That's nice you have a high score on the SAT. But blacks in general score 200 points lower than whites. Probably below the level at which most can do meaningful college work.

Quote:
The SAT measures one, narrow type of intelligence and has little predictive value after college.
Wrong. The SAT has been a fairly "g-loaded" test, which measures general intelligence, especially reasoning and problem solving ability. However, this is now changing. Because blacks and hispanics score so much lower than other groups, there has been tremendous pressure on the the ETS to change the SAT to close the gap. The first big change was the addition of a writing section, which - scored by classroom teachers - is inescapably subjective compared to the other parts of the SAT. It's also inherently suspect because a person taking it can make ulimited factual errors in his essay, yet still earn a high score if his grammar & syntax meet with the approval of the grader, and he is sufficiently verbose.

So far however, the only group to benefit from the writing section are girls, and they only marginally.

Analogies - which once comprised 15% of the verbal questions - were taken out of the SAT three years ago because blacks (and to a lesser extent) hispanics, did especially poorly on them. So far, there is no discernable improvement in black or hispanic scores.

Math questions have been made slightly easier. Again, no improvement in scores for blacks or hispanics, but a definite improvement in Asian scores. Why the latter? Possibly because the slightly easier math section can be "gamed" more effectively by the constant drill-drill-drill practice at which Asians excel.

In summation - while still measuring intelligence to a degree - the SAT is slowly being transformed into something resembling one of the old subject achievement tests, which measure knowledge more than aptitude. And, in the writing section at least, the SAT is degenerating into "fuzziness."

At least in theory, "fuzziness" in tests, by obscuring the difference between high and low scores, helps otherwise low-scoring minorities, though it has not yet shown tangible results.

As far as the SAT's predictive value goes, it HAS been shown to have predictive value after college. A National Academy of Science study focused on this question in 1982 (Garner & Wigdor). Unfortunately for blacks, the results were the wrong way. While white performance was at or slightly over results predicted by SAT scores, blacks tended to fall short of predicted performance levels, based on their SAT scores. In other words, for blacks, the SAT overpredicted later success.

Now, you have a 1490 SAT. You are a doctor. I would think that would make you an exception to the NAS study, as well as your own statement, because you probably thought the SAT underpredicted black success. But an outside observer (me) could think, in your case, your SAT score was indeed predictive.


Quote:
Asians are more easily assimilated into America. As are Indians.
Some Asians are. Others aren't, notably the Hmong people in Wisconsin. What can't be ignored here is the high IQ among successfully assimilating Asian groups, versus the low IQ among groups who have (generally speaking) failed to assimilate, even after living in America as long as white people: blacks, and hispanics.


Quote:
And one last time, affirmative action does not exist...unless you went to SMU...
And, probably not for the last time...here is the latest evidence that affirmative action exists, and is alive and well and doing damage to the college prospects of whites:

The Center for Equal Opportunity reported on Tuesday that at the University of Wisconsin, blacks were 570 times more likely to be admitted than whites. This is based on a comparison of SAT scores and class rank. The median SAT score for blacks admitted was 150 points lower than the median SAT for white applicants.

For the complete report go to: www.ceousa.org

Last edited by dubeaux; 09-18-2011 at 12:56 PM..
 
Old 09-18-2011, 01:05 PM
 
79 posts, read 120,947 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Affirmative action does, or at least did, exist...but its main beneficiaries were white women, statistically speaking.
White women have certainly benefitted from hiring discrimination against white males in government and business and academic hiring. Also in contracts awarded by government to "female owned" businesses. In admission to colleges and graduate school I don't think so. Women usually outperform men in school, in grades and class rank. Not so much in tests, though this is changing too as the tests become more female oriented.
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