Is this a "broken off" section of the Piney Woods in DFW?

[Metro Matt]

I think personally those pines in North Texas were probably planted decades ago.

The soil conditions & climate just isn't ideal for them to thrive on their own. They need sandy soil & lots of humidity in the air...more than North Texas provides. Its the same reason palm trees don't grow well in the region. They have to be babied or planted in a micro climate to survive though there is one species known as the Dwarf Palmetto which grows naturally in far Southeast Dallas County. It is found in abundance in Eastern & Southeast Texas growing in clumps beneath 80-100' tall pine trees. A Dwarf Palmetto is just that, a dwarf palm. Its trunk grows underground with only the fronds sticking up 3-6' in the air.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Which is why a lot of people often associate Dallas with vast, barren prairie that turns a hay yellow in the summer & poop brown in the winter. The City of Dallas today (inside Loop 12 & 635) is much greener than many of its surrounding suburbs which are still pretty barren. Mesquite, Denton, Ennis, Forney, McKinney, The Colony, & Frisco are treeless wastelands I don't care what anyone says. The further west you go towards Fort Worth trees become much more sporadic too. North Texas as a whole doesn't have a whole lot of large tree canopy greater than 50 ft. Its mostly overgrown shrubs dotting the landscape. Plenty of cedars & mesquite though.

That said, both pine trees & palm trees look out of their environment in North Texas. Natural beauty & North Texas don't really go together. I think what saves the place is its rolling topography & Great Trinity "Forest". That area around Cedar Hill is definitely out of the norm because it sits on the Austin Chalk formation. The elevation there is pretty amazing, but nothing that can't be found anywhere else in the state.

What you guys call "trees" in North Texas we call over grown bushes here in East Texas. D/FW looks like typical Middle America to me. Its the buffer zone between the hardwood forests of the Southeast & Desserts of the Southwest.



Great info though, thanks!

Well, of course! Considering you're in the Tyler area (assuming since you state "Rose Capital of The World" as your loc). Hands down, Tyler is beautiful. With all the oaks, pines, hickories, and sweet gums (not just here and there, but everywhere) it reminds me of pictures I've seen of Augusta, GA. I have relatives that live near Leesburg, TX, on Bob Sandlin, and to drive those backroads takes me from reality into Heaven. Y'all definitely have it beautifully there in east Texas!

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Its mostly overgrown shrubs dotting the landscape. Plenty of cedars & mesquite though.

Its the buffer zone between the hardwood forests of the Southeast & Desserts of the Southwest.

Great info though, thanks!

Do you get most of your information from Time Magazine?

Grasslands and savannahs are the highest net producing eco-regions in the world in either food or biomass and produce the majority of the food. In the USA, these regions are the majority of the land area.

Most of the hardwoods are North of the Mason Dixon line. And pines are not hard woods and are the dominant forest species of much of the Southeast. And prior to European immigration, much of the Southeast was open forest or grassland, ie the black belts of Alabama and Georgia and Arkansas. Most of the forests a wagon could be driven through.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

I think personally those pines in North Texas were probably planted decades ago.

The soil conditions & climate just isn't ideal for them to thrive on their own. They need sandy soil & lots of humidity in the air...more than North Texas provides. Its the same reason palm trees don't grow well in the region.

Huh? Pines have been in Texas naturally.

Lost Pines Forest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PALEOENVIRONMENTS | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

Pines need humidity? Is that why you find pines in the mountains in West Texas where humidity is very low most of the time? And Bastrop has about the same humidity as Dallas.

Palms don't do well in North Texas because we get Hard Freezes that kill them.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

I think personally those pines in North Texas were probably planted decades ago.

The soil conditions & climate just isn't ideal for them to thrive on their own. They need sandy soil & lots of humidity in the air...more than North Texas provides. Its the same reason palm trees don't grow well in the region. They have to be babied or planted in a micro climate to survive though there is one species known as the Dwarf Palmetto which grows naturally in far Southeast Dallas County. It is found in abundance in Eastern & Southeast Texas growing in clumps beneath 80-100' tall pine trees. A Dwarf Palmetto is just that, a dwarf palm. Its trunk grows underground with only the fronds sticking up 3-6' in the air.

Originally Posted by TX75007

Huh? Pines have been in Texas naturally.

Lost Pines Forest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PALEOENVIRONMENTS | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)

Pines need humidity? Is that why you find pines in the mountains in West Texas where humidity is very low most of the time? And Bastrop has about the same humidity as Dallas.

Palms don't do well in North Texas because we get Hard Freezes that kill them.

I believe he was referring to pines in North Texas, not statewide. There are some that may be in their natural state in this area, but they're few and far between unless they're sitting in sandy soil. Others, I would agree, had to have been planted a while back to even resemble those in east Texas...

[Sandstorm214]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Its the buffer zone between the hardwood forests of the Southeast & Desserts of the Southwest.

Mmmmm...now you've got me thinking of sopapillas.

[solytaire]

Yeah, pines can and do grow just about anywhere. HOWEVER, the types of pines found in the Southeast and in East Texas thrive mostly in the high iron content of the red clay utisols (which is basically just rusted subsoil due to its poor drainage abilities) found in those respective regions. On the other hand the Pinyon is a pine that can grow in any desert region and hardly resembles any of the pines that grow further east. So when you say "pine" it may be more fitting to emphasize which kind of pine we are referring to here.

More directly to the topic. Ive seen both utisols and isolated pines in DFW. They dont look well there nor do they look as though they are thriving there. Ive seen areas of DFW that are relatively heavily forested by North Texas standards, but most of the area just doesnt seem very naturally conducive to growing abundant foliage.

[Metro Matt]

Pine Trees Native to Texas | eHow.com

As you can see, none of the pines listed are native to North Texas. The ones there were planted. They had to of been.

[alexarlinghaus]

Hello everyone! I'm a Biogeographer, and this is actually where I grew up so I love telling people about this subject. It may have already been said, but the region the original poster described (eastern Tarrant county, and Denton county) is in an ecoregion called the Eastern Cross Timbers. It contains mixed Oaks, Pine, and Cedars, as well as unique soil not found in other areas in the region. It is separated from the western cross timbers by the Grand Prairie eco one. (containing downtown Fort Worth).