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the point for me is not the money per pupil per se--but HOW the state arrives at the plan for where the money comes from...
the plan that is in place now is just illegal--and it has been for decades--ever since the legislature decided to rob from school districts to equalize the money it sends out across the state vs coming up with money from ITS own sources...
this is the third time a legal challenge has been brought against this "Robbin' Hood" funding scheme...
and the court is finally going to have to specify how the state has no right to coerce districts into giving up part of their local tax money to subsidize education across the state...
the TX constitution REQUIRES the STATE to fund an "equitable" system of education across the state--
that means a decent system of education for every district--so it has to pay MORE on its own to do that...
I don't know how familiar the OP is with the history of state/stakes testing in TX--but we were one of the first states to institute a state-wide criteria for testing educational levels...
other states because of the "NCLB" law followed suit and their lack of progress might have more to do with that (a process in time) than with their educational strategies or their spending factors
California as a state has such a preposterous governance system that anything happening there is so far from the norm it should not be considered when rating/comparing with TX
Asian students which had their own test result group for the first time had the overall highest scores of any single group--
across the Board--nationally--the best demographic--
what does that say about culture vs any state's teaching environment...
what that report proves implicitly and without any equivocation is that all the money spent since Bush pushed the NCLB act and forced the nation (and TX) into high-stakes testing as the right way to achieve educational success was totally a waste of time, effort, money...
high stakes testing is worthless for eradicating weaknesses in literacy and other areas...
testing is always a tool for evaluating your strategies but it should never outweight other/better avenues for teaching...
and the pressure it puts on teachers and students is just oppressive and unfair
and hopefully seeing the results in black and white several years in a row will finally start to sink in with legislators and educators who think they can TEST vs TEACH their way out of this hole they have dug...
Last edited by loves2read; 11-08-2011 at 03:42 PM..
Hey--I did not claim it was a mark of success--that is what the article states--
You are the one who provided the article as validation of the "success" of education in TX---
When compared with their demographic peers nationally, every Texas ethnic group finished among the top four states.
My point is that how can we take pride in something that is still a weakness...we still have not closed the gap in significant way with minorities and we won't unless other aspects start to change as well...
Last edited by loves2read; 11-08-2011 at 03:52 PM..
I like you and your opinions a lot. However, on this one you are reaching. The data is clear. Texas spends near the bottom per pupil and flying the face of all educational orthodoxy our kids do very well.
I think this may be a case of...who was that British politician who said that there were lies, damn lies and statistics???
On the face of it, yes you are correct, the data shows that Texas spends less than most, but achieves more than most as well, admirable results. Yet I have NEVER heard anyone, anywhere parade the Texas public school system as one to be emulated by all (not even Rick Perry). If you can find some then let me know. The general gist I get is that Texas education is considered inferior to most others, so there must be something that these stats don't reflect.
On another note, I have to say that I find it somewhat ironic that you are here singing the praises of the Texas public school performance, yet you are probably the biggest cheerleader for the Dallas private schools on CD (and I dont mean this in an offensive way, so dont be offended).
if the point is that in TX our minorities are smarter than "your" minorities--then yes--I guess some people might take pride in that
but if the point is that Hispanics and African American student STILL are not on par with anglo students in our state--which is part of our long history of discrimination in education and economic factors--then that is just saying TX educational systems still have not found out how to overcome disadvantages that begin before kids enter school...
I don't think the disparity is as much about race as it is about income. Poor kids have a much harder road to good grades and college.The education of the parents goes a long way to determine the success in school also.
I firmly believe the best way to improve students all things considered is to improve the teaching and for schools to focus on basics instead of teaching to tests
Not the most objectively written article I've ever read...seems to gloss over the negatives and "dig deeper" for positives to talk about. So it's really hard for me to say that this is great news without a more dispassionate presenter.
Its a perfect example of lying with statistics 101. All facts are correct. One major factor totally not addressed, but should be very obvious to those with any math cognition.
I agree with Pete; it's family culture, not school culture. If a family is impoverished, double to nothing there's a poverty of ideas happening around that dinner table, too. How might a school break a cycle like this? How do schools stand in for parents too weary, busy, desperate or ignorant to nurture their children? Face it, if I were working some crappy job all day I might have a tough time coming home and reading with my kids, particularly if I was not a confident reader in the first place. I don't see how a school system can be expected to compensate for these differences. I like the idea of school staying open later and of volunteers spending that crucial one-on-one time with the students. Show me an underprivileged school walking that walk and I'd be there to volunteer for sure.
I read the article and saw that something is working. Maybe it's correct to feel suspicion in the face of good news but there's enough bad news lately I'll embrace the good without question.
Personally I've always thought the only way to substantially improve the school experiences of the poor/underpriviledged is pretty radical; accept the fact that there are a very large portion of the poor who are incapable of providing the right role model/atmosphere for their kids due to either poor or unstable finances, or there are people who are parents but just not capable of being good parents due to either being 1) single mother, usually uneducated and pretty young herself 2)one or both parents are either on drugs, criminal or have some other unsuitable vice.
So due to this, I would say that we would have to go back to the old school responsibility of the schools...I could be wrong but I think the Latin phrase was in loco parentis...basically saying the school takes the place of the parent wherever necessary. In the old days this usually applied to kids in boarding schools far away from their parents, school teachers were responsible for discipline and teaching life lessons, in addition to regular school instruction. Now this would mean adding family specialists to look into the family life of the kids as we all know that this is where a kid will make or break.
We have to face the fact that certainly in poor minority areas especially, several generations of broken homes, out of wedlock pregnancies and the general break down of the nuclear family is probably one of the biggest culprits for so many ills afflicting the community. We have to accept the fact that some parents need help. Back where I'm originally from, there's a saying that it takes a village to raise a child. It might be too much to expect a 16 year old single mom to successfully raise her kids the right way, but it certainly can be done by all taking an interest.
I know this is probably wishing on a star as many would cite this as infringing on people's rights to raise their kids as they see fit. But I'm willing to bet that such an approach would have a major effect on not only improving school scores, but also reducing crime and many of the other problems in the community. Just my two cents.
I think this may be a case of...who was that British politician who said that there were lies, damn lies and statistics???
On the face of it, yes you are correct, the data shows that Texas spends less than most, but achieves more than most as well, admirable results. Yet I have NEVER heard anyone, anywhere parade the Texas public school system as one to be emulated by all (not even Rick Perry). If you can find some then let me know. The general gist I get is that Texas education is considered inferior to most others, so there must be something that these stats don't reflect.
On another note, I have to say that I find it somewhat ironic that you are here singing the praises of the Texas public school performance, yet you are probably the biggest cheerleader for the Dallas private schools on CD (and I dont mean this in an offensive way, so dont be offended).
1). I think it was the 19th century American author Mark Twain who coined that phrase - not sure though.
2). The point I've tried to make over and over is that test scores like those in the linked article to SAT, ACT tests and others show that racial cadre to racial cadre Texas kids perform very well and they have been doing well for a long time.
3). People, especially the teacher's unions, really - REALLY hate this because these results more or less prove their constant claim that an intractable 1 for 1 relationship exists between per-pupil spending and success.
Could is be that the general gist is BS and the test scores are accurate? Do you think the scores were rigged or that Texas kids have some sort of advantage over others?
4). No offense taken. If you saw my legs you'd know I'd make an awful cheerleader.
I'm a supporter of excellent private schools because, amongst other things, underachievers are not allowed - no excuses underachievers are simply not there. That said we must all strive to improve public schools. Most kids attend and will continue to attend public schools. Therefore I am a supporter of public schools too. Not to mention as a net-taxpayer, mostly property taxes in this case, I want to see my investment dollars maximized.
Hey--I did not claim it was a mark of success--that is what the article states--
You are the one who provided the article as validation of the "success" of education in TX---
When compared with their demographic peers nationally, every Texas ethnic group finished among the top four states.
My point is that how can we take pride in something that is still a weakness...we still have not closed the gap in significant way with minorities and we won't unless other aspects start to change as well...
It clearly does validate "Texas" education and exonerate our low per-pupil spending to a degree you really don't like.
I agree that identical scores amongst all racial cadres is a great goal and something we should strive for. But, right now, why not celebrate that our minority kids are right among the very best educated in the country?
Personally I've always thought the only way to substantially improve the school experiences of the poor/underpriviledged is pretty radical; accept the fact that there are a very large portion of the poor who are incapable of providing the right role model/atmosphere for their kids due to either poor or unstable finances, or there are people who are parents but just not capable of being good parents due to either being 1) single mother, usually uneducated and pretty young herself 2)one or both parents are either on drugs, criminal or have some other unsuitable vice.
So due to this, I would say that we would have to go back to the old school responsibility of the schools...I could be wrong but I think the Latin phrase was in loco parentis...basically saying the school takes the place of the parent wherever necessary. In the old days this usually applied to kids in boarding schools far away from their parents, school teachers were responsible for discipline and teaching life lessons, in addition to regular school instruction. Now this would mean adding family specialists to look into the family life of the kids as we all know that this is where a kid will make or break.
We have to face the fact that certainly in poor minority areas especially, several generations of broken homes, out of wedlock pregnancies and the general break down of the nuclear family is probably one of the biggest culprits for so many ills afflicting the community. We have to accept the fact that some parents need help. Back where I'm originally from, there's a saying that it takes a village to raise a child. It might be too much to expect a 16 year old single mom to successfully raise her kids the right way, but it certainly can be done by all taking an interest.
I know this is probably wishing on a star as many would cite this as infringing on people's rights to raise their kids as they see fit. But I'm willing to bet that such an approach would have a major effect on not only improving school scores, but also reducing crime and many of the other problems in the community. Just my two cents.
GREAT post. I originally went to college to be a teacher, but I'm pretty sure many parents and students are grateful I didn't go down that route (my screename is Overcooked_Oatmeal for a reason). The system is broken due to many of the factors you mentioned and too many "feel-good" do-gooders worried about people's esteem don't want to walk on eggshells or give out tough love to really go into the trenches to solve these issues. A teacher can only do so much.
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I originally went to college to be a teacher, but I'm pretty sure many parents and students are grateful I didn't go down that route 
(my screename is Overcooked_Oatmeal for a reason). The system is broken due to many of the factors you mentioned and too many "feel-good" do-gooders worried about people's esteem don't want to walk on eggshells or give out tough love to really go into the trenches to solve these issues. A teacher can only do so much.
