Moving to Dallas from Arkansas with 4 kids! (Plano, McKinney: sales, to rent)

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by CGGirl

] Parents have a huge influence and not just the school faculty.

No. That can't possibly be true. You mean I have to actually help raise and educate my own child? Rubbish.

[MckinneyOwnr]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

No, souleido was saying that poor people are undesirable. Undesirable neighbors, classmates, and students. Yuck. Riff-raff. That's exactly what souleido meant, regardless of the pc-spin you want to put on it.

No "social stigmas" following these WT White grads

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Yes, Cansarie in Brooklyn and Yes, in the projects there. The NYCHU project there was called Bayview. It wasn't the cess-pool many of the BK projects today, but in Schultz's own words, the family was POOR, not middle class:

"no one was proud of living in the Projects"

"By the time I got to high school, I understood the stigma of living in the Projects. Canarsie High School was less than a mile away, but to get there I had to walk down streets lined with small single-family homes and duplexes. The people who lived there, I knew, looked down on us."

So it would appear your own quotes have proven my point for me.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

No. That can't possibly be true. You mean I have to actually help raise and educate my own child? Rubbish.

Can you believe I was told the EXACT SAME THING by an educator here? What the heck? Where am I going to find the time to sit slack jawed in front of the TV, drink beer and scratch my armpits?

"help raise and educate my own child." Pah. Darn schools ain't worth nuttin' anymore.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr

So it would appear your own quotes have proven my point for me.

Um, no. Howard Schultz grew up in a CITY-RUN HOUSING PROJECT. Big difference between those (even in Dallas.....take a drive through the one @ Maple & & Tollroad if you need to see a sketchy/ creepy/ depressing place with a bunch of coked-up looking people walking around and fights breaking out) and the older (but not "slumlord" or "pj" ) apartments zoned to White throughout northwest Dallas. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[MckinneyOwnr]

Um, yes. I said that coming from a "poorer" school with most of its kids on a free lunch program would probably have a social stigma attached to it, in relation to any school that is more affluent. That is what I took Soleiado's post to mean.

Your posts did indeed say the words "social stigma" towards poorer people from richer. Now you're trying to quantify the monetary differences?

You don't appear to know how to lose a point of argument gracefully, considering you beat yourself here with your own quotes.

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr

Um, yes. I said that coming from a "poorer" school with most of its kids on a free lunch program would probably have a social stigma attached to it, in relation to any school that is more affluent. That is what I took Soleiado's post to mean.

Your posts did indeed say the words "social stigma" towards poorer people from richer. Now you're trying to quantify the monetary differences?

You don't appear to know how to lose a point of argument gracefully, considering you beat yourself here with your own quotes.

It's only a social stigma if you allow it to be. But honestly, academic success is more expected from an affluent school district than a poorer one.

Any smart kid would know to take it off the table.

If two kids one from say St. Mark's the other from say, North Dallas High both have great SAT's and wind up at UT- where is there any room to hold anyhing against a kid that achieved in spite of his/her surroundings.

It's about where you're going, not where you're from.

Smart is smart.


- this note was found in the copier of the free lunch room

[MckinneyOwnr]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

It's only a social stigma if you allow it to be.

I disagree. It's a social stigma regardless of what "you" do, because it pertains to other peoples perceptions of you.

Originally Posted by GreyDay

If two kids one from say St. Mark's the other from say, North Dallas High both have great SAT's and wind up at UT- where is there any room to hold anyhing against a kid that achieved in spite of his/her surroundings.

It's where you're going, not where you're from.

Smart is smart.

- this note was found in the copier of the free lunch room

Again, I'd disagree. I've seen too many people in the course of my life get where they are, not because they are smarter or better than the other guy, but because of who they know. There's a reason for the expression, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

And, those kids who are smart, but come from a less affluent background, are most likely going to end up being second to someone who is just as smart, but who has the connections as well.

[CGGirl]

Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr

I disagree. It's a social stigma regardless of what "you" do, because it pertains to other peoples perceptions of you.



Again, I'd disagree. I've seen too many people in the course of my life get where they are, not because they are smarter or better than the other guy, but because of who they know. There's a reason for the expression, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

And, those kids who are smart, but come from a less affluent background, are most likely going to end up being second to someone who is just as smart, but who has the connections as well.

If it is all about who you know, then what do the grades and SAT scores and high school attended matter then? Why the debate about schools? The fact is that if your parent attended a certain school, your chances of going to that school increase regardless of whether your SAT score was 1100 or 1400. (Where I went to school way back when, a score of 1100 was shameful). Also, while it is true that I have seen many of my peers succeed because of whose butts they chose to kiss, I would not want that path for my child. While this country and society are not a meritocracy, I will continue to do my best to ensure that it gets closer to that ideal.

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr

I disagree. It's a social stigma regardless of what "you" do, because it pertains to other peoples perceptions of you.



Again, I'd disagree. I've seen too many people in the course of my life get where they are, not because they are smarter or better than the other guy, but because of who they know. There's a reason for the expression, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

And, those kids who are smart, but come from a less affluent background, are most likely going to end up being second to someone who is just as smart, but who has the connections as well.

I suppose it depends on your field. If you've got a business or management type job, yeah knowing someone helps. If you're a neurosurgeon, your work speaks for you. If you can't perform, it doesn't matter who you know or who mommy and daddy are.

The scope of the original arguement was about school-age kids. So again, if I've got two high achieving school kids, does it really matter on which side of the toll road they live on?

You're also overlooking that a kid may start off poor, but as they achieve more, become a polished product, they pick up mentors and make connections.

I'm not in business/finance, so I can't speak to those types of jobs.

But it's sad, if you're grown still telling people who your mommy and daddy are.

At some point you have to fend for yourself in the wild.

[MckinneyOwnr]

Grey, I agree with most of your post. But as you said, for business/management jobs (I've always been in Finance) then it does help if you come from a "better" social hierarchy, especially if your grades are the same as someone who came from "lesser" schools. I think that for a Dr, especially any type of surgeon, then your work certainly would speak for you, and open doors. But I also know that social favoritism comes into play here as well. My buddy is a cardiovascular surgeon at JH. He ended up getting a fellowship one year early, over several of his peers. Hard worker? Sure. But I'm sure it also didn't hurt that he and the director were both UT Alums and Texas Ex's.

And yes, it is sad that people rely on their parents to get them into a job when other, more qualified candidates are passed over. However, that happens all the time in this day and age. I don't have kids of my own yet. But as a parent, I'm sure they want the best for their children, and any connections they've made in their lives that can help their kids, why not use them? I can't fault someone for wanting what is best for their kids, I would probably do the same thing to help start their career.

Back to the original argument, two school kids getting the same grades and the same test scores, but one from a wealthier school with parents with networking connections, vs the other kid who is just as smart, just as hard of a worker... Most likely, the first kid has the edge. I really don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. If it weren't true, then we could extend that further to say that money and connections don't matter, and we all know that isn't the case.