New homes = no yard (Dallas, Plano: apartment, HOA, mover)

[GoPadge]

[Rant]I spent Sunday afternoon looking at houses in west Collin county and east Denton county mostly along Hwy 380. I looked in the developments of Savannah, Providence, Paloma Creek, Cross Oaks, Cobb Hill, The Meadows, and the Woodlands.

From what I saw, too many developers concentrate on sticking as many houses as they can in a given space. Every neighborhood except for the Woodlands has pitifully small yards. I don't know how many homes I saw with back yards that were too big for even a swingset. And forget about having holiday parties, there's no room to park anywhere. There certainly wasn't room for my 3 vehicles and camper.

Why do we put up with it? To live in the "it" neighborhood? What parent in their right mind lets their elementary age kids go running off to a "park" twenty houses away to throw a ball? And oooh, this neighborhood has a pool, or three, and a clubhouse. For what the HOA dues cost I can join the Y, it won't matter, I've got to get into my car to haul them all down to the pool anyway. (And at least the Y won't tell me what color my house has to be or what mailbox I have to use.)

[/rant]

I guess I'll start concetrating on older homes. I saw some decient lot sizes at least in Plano.

[momof2dfw]

I hear ya. It is the developers and the cities that let them do this and get away with it. The developer goes before the city (council and planning & zoning) and whines and cries that with any larger lot sizes they won't make ANY money. Boo-hoo. With any larger lot sizes people don't want that much yard to keep up. Have ya bothered to ASK? Oh but we will giver x number of acres for parks and a sidewalk for walking and riding bikes. Woo-hoo. And the mandatory HOA (most cities require this now for new neighborhoods) we will put in a pool and a clubhouse. Yippie, like you said, I have to pack up the car to get to it. And then if I get there and IT'S CLOSED!!!!!! WHAT!!! Some kid pooped in his diaper and they have to shut down the entire pool for a week to decontaminate it. Then the pool opens for the season Memorial Day Weekend and closes Labor Day Weekend. WHAT!?!??!!?!? It is now the middle of SEPTEMBER and it is still WARM OUTSIDE. My kids can swim in MY pool in MY backyard YEAR ROUND!!! That is Dallas weather, we CAN do these things any time of year if the weather permits. So they build these ugly houses that take up the entire yard that is too small for a swingset much less a toy pocket-sized dog and sell them for top dollar because they are in the "IT" side of town in the "IT" neighborhood. No thanks. I like having my BIG yard. I can not open my window and reach out and knock on the neighbors window. I can have a party and people have room to park and enjoy the outside if weather permits. My kids and ALL of their friends can come over and go out back into our yard and swim, swing, play in the fort, jump on the trampoline, ride their bike around the yard, kick the ball, WHATEVER!!! And not whine about wanting to go down to some park so they can "do something".

More people need to oopose zoning changes for developments to let them know that larger yards ARE WANTED. Some of us do LIKE to do some yardwork. I don't want a zerolot line home.

[Texan#1]

I think we are very fortunate to even have yards... most cities of our size around the world have very limited space and the developers are forced to build up. You use the excuse that a parent cannot let a child walk twenty houses down the street to throw a ball.... well then why wont the parent drive the poor child to a park and oversee the 'ball throwing.' We can't continue our outward and wreckless growth (we'll be in Oklahoma pretty soon) and if people want acre lots then maybe a big metropolitan area like DFW shouldn't be option for them... People who want what you do should move to cities like Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[irwin]

Originally Posted by Texan#1

I think we are very fortunate to even have yards... most cities of our size around the world have very limited space and the developers are forced to build up. You use the excuse that a parent cannot let a child walk twenty houses down the street to throw a ball.... well then why wont the parent drive the poor child to a park and oversee the 'ball throwing.' We can't continue our outward and wreckless growth (we'll be in Oklahoma pretty soon) and if people want acre lots then maybe a big metropolitan area like DFW shouldn't be option for them... People who want what you do should move to cities like Tulsa, Oklahoma.

I agree 100%.

Sprawl has its limits.

Go to a park. Join a gym. Have people park on the street.
Maybe you might want to think about selling all those cars (three cars and a camper?!?)

[socketz]

I actually prefer smaller lots out there as a trade off for a nicer area....I guess because I'm used to the arrangement here in SoCal. It's also less to maintain, and to be honest, when I was out the lots were not something you'd want to go outside and enjoy. The acres of dead grass and shrubs actually made me want to go to a mall/restuarant.

"Maybe you might want to think about selling all those cars (three cars and a camper?!?)"

That's why I love HOAs. I grew up in areas that lacked conformity and allowed unlimited freedom to do with your property as you please. Needless to say, most of the areas I grew up in are now rundown eclectic messes....no thanks...nonethless, I'm cool with those who hate them...like everything, it's a choice one makes.

[GoPadge]

Yes three cars and a camper. We have my daily drive a '97 VW Jetta (200,000+ miles); the whole family mover/tow vehicle, a '99 Suburban; and my wife's daily drive an '84 Dodge Rampage (an Omni based version of an El Camino).

One of us could daily drive the 'burb, but then I'd be getting grief for wasting fuel and poluting the environment. I'm not asking for a 10 acre lot to setup my doublewide and have some room for my 13 dogs and of course I need some space for a couple cars up on blocks....

Oh while I, (well my wife at any rate,) could take the a child to the park, what do you suggest the other three do? They are NEVER going to finish their homework at the same time. And what do you propose they do while she's trying to cook dinner? Sit and watch TV? Isn't there enough evidence already that American children are sedentary too much as it is? Why are you opposed to children having a safe, healthy environment to play in?

All I'm asking for is a lot big enough for me to put up my patio furniture and still have room for all four kids to stand on some grass. Heck, it wouldn't hurt if they actually had room to run too. But a developer who shoehorns as many 2000 sq ft main floor homes as they can into a 3000 sq ft lot isn't doing anything to stop sprawl. Especially when they buy out farmland to put in a development. And with a development in the middle of nowhere, you have other builders building all the other infrastructer a neighborhood needs/wants. Restaurants, shops, gas stations, grocery stores, and heaven knows we need another Wal-mart or Target every 3rd mile.

All the while downtown continues to rot and fester. When is someone going to put money into rebuilding our inner cities? You want to talk about stopping sprawl, how about making the area's we all work in, a place where people would want to live.

[Quick someone get me my medicine.... I think I got back on that rant again.]

[Texan#1]

Originally Posted by GoPadge

All the while downtown continues to rot and fester. When is someone going to put money into rebuilding our inner cities? You want to talk about stopping sprawl, how about making the area's we all work in, a place where people would want to live.

[Quick someone get me my medicine.... I think I got back on that rant again.]

What are you blabbing about? You truly have no clue as to what is going on in inner city Dallas. Ever heard of Uptown, Victory Park, the West Village, or Knox Park? All of these areas are booming with construction and people are flocking to them by the masses! Even downtown specifically is undergoing a rebirth right now with condo/apartment towers, shops, restaurants and cafes. While, I definitely think our areas urban environment is lacking, it is definitely not rotting. Enough with my rant.. just had to let it out!

Good luck finding what you want though. Plano is nice and you won't have a hard time finding what you're looking for there.

[GoPadge]

You are correct. I have no idea what's going on in inner city Dallas. It's not somewhere I've had the need to see or visit. Other than the view at 65mph along I-35E. And I will admit that my view is certainly skewed by what I see in my commute.

Actually I was blabbing on about urban sprawl in general (note the words inner cities), not Dallas in particular. And while there is revitalization ongoing in downtown Dallas (I can see the cranes as I wait to merge onto 35 in the evenings), there are plenty are areas within the city limits where many people would not choose to live, so I would definately say there is room for imporvement in Dallas.

I'm not sure why we are arguing. My initial post was a rebuke of spec home developers and their practices that lead to urban sprawl. Something you appear to be against, though in your delivery you appear to attack me for wanting a home with a yard.

I don't need to move to Oklahoma to find what I want. I already have it. Just not where I want it. I'm in a 2900 sq ft, 106 year old house on at 1/3 acre lot. But it's half way between Dallas and Waco, and I now work in Plano.

[momof2dfw]

GoPadge,
I agree. There are MANY areas in "inner" Dallas that are lacking. They do need to see some renewal. Yes, closer to downtown Dallas there is a rebirth but there are so MANY areas that are just out of that small ring but still inside the LBJ loop that are festering. They are the smaller houses, set on bigger yards, large trees, etc. House just big enough to live in but a yard big enough for a kid to play kickball/football w/ his/her friends. There are also many suburbs of Dallas that are older and were built out years ago that have undergone some transformations that are not positive in the last 10-15 years. Need I say FB? (I grew up there so I DO know what I am talking about). When I was there and in school it was nice, neat, middle class, hardworking families w/ a lot of stay at home moms, kids always out playing in the yards, etc. Not anymore.

As for the cars, got ya beat . Not sure if that is a good thing or not..... I've got the family car in the 02 Suburban (paid for )& company p/u for hubby. Then w/ gas prices going up, the Burb racking up miles but not wanting to trade in such a "new" vehicle I got a smaller, more economical, sedan last year for the days and errands that do not require the "Mom Taxi" (yes I am "momof2" but do not be surprised to see me w/ 4 kids or such, carpool ), need it for work like I did today, road trips and such. Then there are the other two babies, the ones my husband dreamed about for years and can finally say he has them: 68 Camaro convertible & 69 Camaro. He loves it. He has a high stress job and this allow him something to play w/ that he ejoys regardless of the weather as they are always in the garage under lock and key. Now before anyone gets all upset these are NOT your old beat up clunkers on blocks. While they will not win 1st place at some fancy-schmancy car show they are drivers and look great. They are lookers! Then the pwc, yep, two Seadoo's on the trailer. I do live in an HOA that is VERY strict as this is a VERY upscale neighborhood but we still don't have the most vehicles. LOL!!! I think my husband found his dream neighbors as the guys all get together and "play cars" . And there are NO cars parked ANYWHERE on ANYTHING other than pavement in our driveway or garage. Like the saying goes: "Who cares how big the house is, How big is the garage?" Then he tells me last night he found a 67 and it looks "sweeeeeet" and that would "complete the package". OMG Trust me, I don't want to live next to a "car storage" schmo or some "shade tree mechanic" and do like that HOA's can control that (some not all depending on who is in charge. Don't count on the one in McKinney in Stonebridge to help you if your neighbor parks a clunker on blocks in their front drive. My sis lives next to one and she has reported it numerous times to no avail. They also refuse to do anything about the neighbor parking their jacked up, beat up blazer/bronco covered in mud in the street for days & weeks at a time).

As for "urban sprawl". Where some of these houses are USED to be "country". 15-20 years ago the places way out in Allen & McKinney, etc and all WERE in "the country". I remember when "far North Dallas" was still INSIDE the LBJ loop. As a matter of fact these houses being built WAY TOO close to each other does more harm than good. Something does need to happen to slow down growth in our area. Just look at the water shortage for one and they are getting ready to clamp down even tighter. Then more concrete, less grass & trees can and does cause flooding when we get flash rain storms (pah-lease.... we NEED the rain) that we do get in this area. In areas of heavy population and nowhere for the water to go the roads turn into dangerous waterways and we already have enough stupid people thinking they can drive thru it . If a city knows that their infrastructure can only handle a population build out of a certain number they do have the right to put their foot down to the builders & developers. It only hurst us in the long run and we are only headed for trouble if it does not slow down. Just read on all of the cities in Texas and the number of people wanting to come here from Florida, California, Arizona because of the congestion, high costs of living, etc. If we don't do something we are going to be in the same boat and I for one do not want to see my hometown of Dallas become the next LA or such.

[socketz]

momof2dfw,

With all due respect, I've been all over Stonebridge and I have never seen anything like you describe. For me, Stonebridge is about as Nazi HOA as they come (i.e Ryland Communities from California). I have 3 friends that live there, all would agree with me. Sure the taxes there are high and there is still some instability (i.e teens and vandalism) as there would be in any hood like this that has grown 1200% in 2 years.

However, I'd put my money on Stonebridge 3, 5 or even 12 years out. Seriously, the south central is about the only place in the US I have not lived...within all places, eventually conformity rules and structure evolves into exclusivity.Whether we 'think' we want it or not, we humans are all wired the same way....we nest......you can fight it, oppose it, but you have to agree that there are certain inherant advantages that result in the long term protection of your investment that HOAs offer.