Gifted & Talented Testing for Elementary (living in, assessment, kindergarten)

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In general, a gifted mathy kid should finish Calculus in the 9th grade, then progress through Abstract Algebra and Analysis by the 11th. Their science courses should mirror this sequence with Quantum Mechanics taught in the 11th grade as well.

get outta here. true, my husband and i both wasted a lot of time not learning diddly in elementary school but neither of us went beyond ordinary differential equation in high school. and my husband went to MIT and got straight A's all the way until in grad school (also MIT) when he got his first B.

and seriously, i had issues with partial differential equation in college. while i am not a math "genius," even the valedictorian at my alma mater who went on to get PhD in econ at Princeton was not doing analysis in high school.

i really think only gauss and the like can pull analysis and abstract algebra in high school.

plus, there's still 2 more full years of applied math after calc before pure math so that would only be senior year before someone can even think about analysis.

but the wasted time in elementary school is why i am hoping to get my kid into G&T, though it seems like it will be wasted time at a higher level (i.e. plateau higher, the slope doesn't change).

It sounds like math is really all your are concerned about - you might consider SEM when you reach high school.

At Science and Engineering Magnet, kids in 9th grade take PAP Algebra 2 first semester (A and B days), PAP Pre Cal second semester (A and B days) and PAP Geometry throughout the year on either an A or B day.

AP Cal AB is taken in 10th grade.

AP Cal BC in 11th grade. Here many kids take AP Chem and AP Physics B and their corresponding labs - it's called Super Class...strong math background preps them for the work.

In 12th grade - AP Stats, AP Physics C, Intro to Nuclear Engineering, Adv Bio Research, etc.

Plus there is Comp Sci, Environ Sci, Engineering, Astronomy.

In addition, though, I think an element is often missing. STEM to STEAM

10th grade: Calculus 1/Calculus 2 (for college credit from UTD).
11th grade: Differential Equations/Number Theory (for college credit from UTD).
12th grade: Abstract Algebra/Multi-variable Calculus (for college credit from UTD).

why are they doing abstract algebra before pde? seems like kids would be plenty busy with such calc 3,4 without the algebra senior year.

i went and talked to my kid's teacher -- "i can't teach above grade math." so i am not inclined to believe they are going to do me any favors. maybe when he's in middle school or something but then he will have wasted a bunch of years. i am seriously thinking about yanking him out.

Don't stop with the teacher. Go to the principal or Dr. Orr if you need to in order to meet your kid's needs.

"Yanking him out" should be the last resort after exhausting all district avenues, not after the homeroom teacher said no.

why are they doing abstract algebra before pde? seems like kids would be plenty busy with such calc 3,4 without the algebra senior year.

I wouldn't sweat it. That whole high school sequence is currently pie in the sky. They haven't even implemented the HS Math Rocks curriculum yet. The pilot program kids (from the Rice area only) are in 7th and 8th grade now. The district-wide program is in place for 6th grade and below.

Last I heard, the Math Rocks kids were going to be asked to burn an elective and be registered for 2 hours of math in 9th grade to accomplish the Alg II & Pre-Calc combo (along with a bunch of AMC 10 and USAMO prep work). At that point, counting the Alg I and Geometry done in middle school, they would be DONE with their 4 years of HS math. For 10th grade and beyond, they wouldn't even be associated with PISD for math (other than getting dual-enrollment credit).

As I understand it (and the whole process is far from set), the idea is that those kids just get in their cars and drive to UTD for math classes after 9th grade. As such, they can take whatever classes they qualify for, so the exact order would depend on the specific kid.

Tito's ultimate goal is to form an ongoing pipeline of local kids he can take to national and international competitions for the greater glory of UTD (and, I guess, PISD).

Don't stop with the teacher. Go to the principal or Dr. Orr if you need to in order to meet your kid's needs.

"Yanking him out" should be the last resort after exhausting all district avenues, not after the homeroom teacher said no.

yeah, maybe that's an idea. cuz my kid probably isn't going to sit 2 hours for some test and crank it out.

i would like to avoid sending him to private school and, heaven forbid, homeschool.

thanks for your suggestions. sorry i lost my head the other night. if you don't have a kid yet, parents get all nuts when it comes to their children's education. it could be i just lose my head sometimes even without my kid. but it's a good excuse.

yeah, maybe that's an idea. cuz my kid probably isn't going to sit 2 hours for some test and crank it out.

i would like to avoid sending him to private school and, heaven forbid, homeschool.

Would this be a good time to point out that PISD has a well-defined and transparent procedure for selecting kids for their highly-accelerated Math Rocks program?

Two problems for the OP, though. First, he'd have to accept living in a larger house for less cost. Second, his kid would definitely have to "crank it out" on a standardized test. I'm not getting the objection to that. It's a bit much to expect a district to accept a parent's certainly-biased assessment of his/her kid's abilities.

get outta here. ...
...
i really think only gauss and the like can pull analysis and abstract algebra in high school.

but the wasted time in elementary school is why i am hoping to get my kid into G&T, though it seems like it will be wasted time at a higher level (i.e. plateau higher, the slope doesn't change).

The Math Rocks program in PISD has analysis components in the second semester of the 11th grade and Abstract Algebra in the 12th. There are over 200 kids in the program. A lot of these kids are pulling down scores of 20+ on the AMC tests. Very hard to do.

Several privates in the DFW area teach analysis in independent study to students who complete the Calculus sequence.

If your kid is "wasting time" in elementary school, then where do they land on the math sequence so their time is not wasted?

And as for the GT program, I'd look at it closely as it may not mean accelerated learning at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Would this be a good time to point out that PISD has a well-defined and transparent procedure for selecting kids for their highly-accelerated Math Rocks program?

Two problems for the OP, though. First, he'd have to accept living in a larger house for less cost. Second, his kid would definitely have to "crank it out" on a standardized test. I'm not getting the objection to that. It's a bit much to expect a district to accept a parent's certainly-biased assessment of his/her kid's abilities.

LOL. Love the sunglasses. You going to wear them to the next MMC meetup?

On the second part, to echo the comment above, if your child is working 3+ grades ahead on math, then getting into Math Rocks would be a slam dunk. Having 20+ on each AMC test to put on the App for MIT or Caltech will require some significant home schooling as well. But, then that is why it called hard work. So, I do not understand the objection either.

The Math Rocks program in PISD has analysis components in the second semester of the 11th grade and Abstract Algebra in the 12th. There are over 200 kids in the program. A lot of these kids are pulling down scores of 20+ on the AMC tests. Very hard to do.

Several privates in the DFW area teach analysis in independent study to students who complete the Calculus sequence.

If your kid is "wasting time" in elementary school, then where do they land on the math sequence so their time is not wasted?

And as for the GT program, I'd look at it closely as it may not mean accelerated learning at all.

LOL. Love the sunglasses. You going to wear them to the next MMC meetup?

On the second part, to echo the comment above, if your child is working 3+ grades ahead on math, then getting into Math Rocks would be a slam dunk. Having 20+ on each AMC test to put on the App for MIT or Caltech will require some significant home schooling as well. But, then that is why it called hard work. So, I do not understand the objection either.

look, you can do things like memorize proofs and crap, but there is just no way your typical smart fifteen and sixteen year old can do analysis. i am telling you, i ain't no math genius, but i did get a 5 on my AP calc, go to an ivy league and studied both engineering and finance. no dice on analysis. that thing will kill you. and ditto for my husband who was in phd at MIT.

there is hardly one kid out of 200 in math/engineering program at the top 25 schools in the country who can do analysis for real. i don't believe that statistic is better for the really smart kids in dallas, certainly not enough for there to be whole cohorts of kids who can master it at 17.

Last edited by akpack; 01-12-2012 at 05:07 PM..

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