Can Downtown support multiple large retail stores? (Dallas, Plano: rent, condos)

[Dallaz]

Can Downtown support a large store other than Neiman-Marcus? Is there enough foot traffic for another large store? (Department Store, Grocery, etc.) In my opinion I think a store like JCPenney or Kroger will do very well in Downtown.

Here's the reasons

-7-Eleven and Urban Market isn't cutting it. We need something where people can do all their grocery shopping without leaving Downtown.
-There isn't a Department Store in the area that's moderately priced. Everyone cannot buy clothes from Neiman's. We need something that everyone can buy and a new store will bring more traffic into Downtown too.
-These new retail options will also make Downtown more vibrant because it will give people a reason to come Downtown. Seattle's and San Francisco's Downtown have large retailers anchoring their Downtown. When we had a vibrant Downtown we had multiple Department stores anchoring Downtown, that what brought a lot of the people in.
-Lastly, we have the people (We have over 20,000 people living in Downtown) but we just need the retail options that will make people want to walk the Downtown streets.

Please give your opinion on this.

[Made_it_To_the_Metroplex]

I honestly couldn't hazard a guess on this, as I don't live in the area (but hope to this year!). I certainly HOPE that people will consider shopping, dining, and doing everyday things downtown. The sports and arts venues are great, but every great city needs a living, breathing 24/7 city center-not a 9 to 5 downtown. There's nothing more depressing than a downtown full of beautiful buildings that becomes a ghost town after dark.

[ggolf]

My wife and I agreed that the dumbest thing Dallas did was not help Jerry "evil" Jones build a new stadium downtown. I lived in Minneapolis and the Metrodome was the best for both football and baseball for downtown visits. Lots of bars and restaurants thriving. You could park anywhere in a garage in downtown and easily walk to the stadium, then when the game let out, walk back to your car and easily get outta town, vis a vis a parking lot at a stadium. Or stay a bit for a pub visit. Can you imagine the vibrancy of downtown if we had the Stars, Mavs, Boys, and Rangers all in sports centers in the Fair Park area? OK, so some of the dilapidated houses in Fair Park would have to be bought out, but for a fair price wouldn't they say "heck yes"? Even if they were renting we could have come up with some kind of rent subsidy and move subsidy to help them. Then Fair Park could be rehabbed and the whole area of Fair Park would be thriving? Can someone say "Tax Revenue"? Improvement? The improvements would spread out? Everyone wins?
Fair Park would become a golden jewel of this city.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by ggolf

My wife and I agreed that the dumbest thing Dallas did was not help Jerry "evil" Jones build a new stadium downtown. I lived in Minneapolis and the Metrodome was the best for both football and baseball for downtown visits. Lots of bars and restaurants thriving. You could park anywhere in a garage in downtown and easily walk to the stadium, then when the game let out, walk back to your car and easily get outta town, vis a vis a parking lot at a stadium. Or stay a bit for a pub visit. Can you imagine the vibrancy of downtown if we had the Stars, Mavs, Boys, and Rangers all in sports centers in the Fair Park area? OK, so some of the dilapidated houses in Fair Park would have to be bought out, but for a fair price wouldn't they say "heck yes"? Even if they were renting we could have come up with some kind of rent subsidy and move subsidy to help them. Then Fair Park could be rehabbed and the whole area of Fair Park would be thriving? Can someone say "Tax Revenue"? Improvement? The improvements would spread out? Everyone wins?
Fair Park would become a golden jewel of this city.

You couldn't build all of those structures in Fair Park because there isn't enough space and it's a national historic landmark. Fair Park is already a jewel of the city. Fair Park has the most Art Deco buildings outside of New York City.

[ClarenceBodiker]

For years I think it was just a case of people not wanting to move somewhere where these things don't exist vs. these things not wanting to move where people don't exist. Now that downtown's population has seen real growth for several years in a row, I think a lot more of the every day things you're talking about will be just around the corner and they'll feed off of each other.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker

For years I think it was just a case of people not wanting to move somewhere where these things don't exist vs. these things not wanting to move where people don't exist. Now that downtown's population has seen real growth for several years in a row, I think a lot more of the every day things you're talking about will be just around the corner and they'll feed off of each other.

I'm just wondering how long it will take. To me the whole purpose of living in downtown is to live in a urban environment that has everything you need. Yes, downtown is urban but it's lacking the basic things a urban community needs.

[grneyedmustang]

YES. I live downtown and I would LOVE to have a Kroger and other retail options down here. Urban Market is okay, but only good for "I ran out of milk and don't feel like driving" type situations.

I hate the fact that after 6pm down here, there is no one milling around on the streets, except for on the weekends. And even then, its only in a limited area (Main St, Elm St).

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by grneyedmustang

YES. I live downtown and I would LOVE to have a Kroger and other retail options down here. Urban Market is okay, but only good for "I ran out of milk and don't feel like driving" type situations.

I hate the fact that after 6pm down here, there is no one milling around on the streets, except for on the weekends. And even then, its only in a limited area (Main St, Elm St).

Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. It's a shame that suburban areas have more retail stores than Downtown. Heck, even Uptown has more stores. We have the space in downtown for a Kroger, Tom Thumb, Penney's, etc. but I guess they are not sure about opening a store. Like I said, we have the people but we just need the retailers. People are wondering why Dallas is dead, its because there's no where to shop other than Neiman-Marcus. If they just open one major retailer I bet things will start to change dramatically.

[hsw]

Where are high-income jobs in region? Most often Uptown, Irving, Plano...not DT

Where do high-income workers choose to reside?
In online era, many do mundane shopping on amazon
And for daily dining, yuppies tend to dine out, not cook...where are most interesting casual yuppie haunts? More likely Uptown not DT
And families tend to prefer newer suburbs w/cheaper new houses and proximity to WholeFoods, etc

The DT game makes little economic sense to either credible residents or retailers...or major employers in any modern region in world....consider SiliconValley, a classic suburban corridor with more high-income yuppies than anywhere on planet

Only SF and Manhattan have enough yuppies to support decent retailers...and, even there, decent stores and daily-use retailers aren't in SF FinDt or Midtown/DT but rather in more residential parts of town where many yuppies drive (not walk) to commute or run daily errands or get grub...quite suburban approach to life in world's yuppie epicenters

[Made_it_To_the_Metroplex]

Originally Posted by hsw

Where are high-income jobs in region? Most often Uptown, Irving, Plano...not DT

Where do high-income workers choose to reside?
In online era, many do mundane shopping on amazon
And for daily dining, yuppies tend to dine out, not cook...where are most interesting casual yuppie haunts? More likely Uptown not DT
And families tend to prefer newer suburbs w/cheaper new houses and proximity to WholeFoods, etc

The DT game makes little economic sense to either credible residents or retailers...or major employers in any modern region in world....consider SiliconValley, a classic suburban corridor with more high-income yuppies than anywhere on planet

Only SF and Manhattan have enough yuppies to support decent retailers...and, even there, decent stores and daily-use retailers aren't in SF FinDt or Midtown/DT but rather in more residential parts of town where many yuppies drive (not walk) to commute or run daily errands or get grub...quite suburban approach to life in world's yuppie epicenters

I don't know how it is in Dallas, but in most other cities I've been to (and even here in Greenville, SC with a vibrant downtown and lots of downtown living) downtown condos and townhomes are NOT cheap; here in G'ville, downtown is much MORE expensive than equivalent square footage in the suburbs. Therefore, logic dictates that those living in/near downtown are not on the lower end of the economic scale.