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Old 01-22-2012, 03:38 PM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,182,090 times
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I guess there's no free lunch. We have to pay somehow. Either way, robin hood or state taxes.

Here in Illinois the property tax where I was looking to settle in is at 2.2%. Plus we get a 5% state tax.

I look at Flower Mound or Southlake... 2.2 to 2.56%? Not too bad.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,564 posts, read 2,297,977 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
My #1 objection to Robin Hood is that there is ZERO accountability for where the money goes once it's in a "property poor" district's hands. Back in the early 1990's, Laredo was one of the big recipients of RH $$. They used it to build a state-of-the-art FOOTBALL STADIUM. Sorry, but if the goal of RH is to even out the EDUCATIONAL experience for Texas students, NO RH money should be spent on athletic facilities, beefing up already bloated administration salaries, etc. The money should be spent/invested in teacher recruiting & training, curriculum development, textbooks, classroom technology, tutoring, SAT/ college prep, teacher salaries, coaching /tutoring parents, meaningful field trips to museums/ parks/ historical locations, etc.

Wealthy people are pretty charitable by nature. Personally, I am beyond blessed with financial resources and wouldn't mind my property tax dollars being redistributed to communities/ students /teachers who really need some extra cash to transform a generation of future Texans. As you said, HPISD has continued to perform at a high level with less resources, so while a bit more budget would be nice, it's not crucial to the distct's existence or success. The complete & utter mismanagement of RH funds is what I detest.

My second complaint is how property poor / rich schools are determined and how it relates to academically poor/rich districts. A mega district like Dallas or Fort Worth or Houston, where well over half of school children are from economically disadvantaged homes (and often battle other educational roadblocks like ESL, learning disabilities, single parent homes, uneducated parent homes) should NOT be giving any money to RH districts when it can't even produce a critical mass of grade level performing students & teachers with its resource pool. Yes, I get it that the tax base is wealthy but it just seems so wrong to me to send an overall underperforming (despite 10% of schools being great, like magnets) district's funds to another underperforming district.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the accountability requirement. I didnt know that school districts could spend their RH money on football stadiums and the like. There definitely should be parameters established for how the money is spent. For your second complaint I agree, it's ironic that today DISD is going to consolidate 11 schools since they are so deep in the deficit hole, yet they are considered a "rich" district and will lose funds to RH! Something is definitely wrong with this picture.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:37 PM
 
11,681 posts, read 21,263,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I didnt know that school districts could spend their RH money on football stadiums and the like. There definitely should be parameters established for how the money is spent.

There are some delightful "nuggets" of info in this link to what some of the valley area schools (which are property poor and get extra funding from HPISD and other property rich schools) did with their RH funds in recent years-->

PEYTON WOLCOTT - Is Robin Hood working? A closer look at Texas' MALDEF schools

Some of my personal favorites:
1. Harlingen ISD has a 6-person PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT, complete with it's own TV studio. WTF?? This district got $100M in state & federal funding in 2008. How much do you think 6 PR dept salaries cost each year, with benefits? $300K? More?

2. Edcouch-Elsa ISD's online budget records show $30M in budgeted expense lines, yet they were funded with $87M. WTF are they doing with a $57M "surplus" yet only $13M in the bank. What did they spend the other $44M on??? This district has 5,600 students (1,000 smaller than HPISD), yet is spending $13,200/student vs HPISD's $8,300, a 59% increase and still, the district is only ranked Academically Acceptable (2nd worst).

3. Edgewood ISD has constructed an "Employee Fitness Center" since the Robin Hood funds began to roll in. How many of our wealthy DFW school districts have these??

This is an interesting read, too:
Texas Superintendent Salaries: 2010-11

Note that HPISD's chief has the 41st highest salary in TX and Eanes ISD (Austin Westlake)'s chief has the 47th highest salary.

Quite a few Robin Hood supers make $150-345k per year, depsite being in some of the poorest counties in TX where annual income is under $30k per year. I'm not saying that supers should live in poverty and of course you have to pay competively to hire great people, but seriously, it's necessary to pay a super 6X the area's median income?? Edcouch-Elsa's current super makes $105k per year (4X area median family income of $26k), but his predecessor made over $160k (6.1X times the median income). Craziness & wasteful
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:47 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 2,003,222 times
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This is why Robin hood needs to be done with. There is no excuse for that situation.Who do they answer to? No one? Ridiculous.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,812 posts, read 3,570,970 times
Reputation: 3600
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatChicagoan View Post
I think you would get a better idea if you compared median income to median house price. Or mean income to mean house price. You're comparing two different kinds of equations...
Actually the poster you were quoting was less-than-precise with their language (I'm often guilty of the same offense), as the numbers actually are median income and median home price.

If you look at the 2009 American Community Survey numbers from the Census, Southlake had a slightly higher median income than HP (~181K to ~178K), but had a median home price that was less than HALF that of HP (~452K to ~982K).

The 2010 numbers came out recently and aren't quite as extreme, as HP's median income increased considerably (to 223K), but HP's ratio of median home price to median income is still MUCH higher than that of Southlake (or any other DFW suburb, save for University Park).

I get that the numbers have a certain margin of error and all, but the Park Cities stick out like a sore thumb re: home price to income ratio.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:40 PM
 
267 posts, read 366,641 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
There are some delightful "nuggets" of info in this link to what some of the valley area schools (which are property poor and get extra funding from HPISD and other property rich schools) did with their RH funds in recent years-->

PEYTON WOLCOTT - Is Robin Hood working? A closer look at Texas' MALDEF schools

Some of my personal favorites:
1. Harlingen ISD has a 6-person PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT, complete with it's own TV studio. WTF?? This district got $100M in state & federal funding in 2008. How much do you think 6 PR dept salaries cost each year, with benefits? $300K? More?

2. Edcouch-Elsa ISD's online budget records show $30M in budgeted expense lines, yet they were funded with $87M. WTF are they doing with a $57M "surplus" yet only $13M in the bank. What did they spend the other $44M on??? This district has 5,600 students (1,000 smaller than HPISD), yet is spending $13,200/student vs HPISD's $8,300, a 59% increase and still, the district is only ranked Academically Acceptable (2nd worst).

3. Edgewood ISD has constructed an "Employee Fitness Center" since the Robin Hood funds began to roll in. How many of our wealthy DFW school districts have these??

This is an interesting read, too:
Texas Superintendent Salaries: 2010-11

Note that HPISD's chief has the 41st highest salary in TX and Eanes ISD (Austin Westlake)'s chief has the 47th highest salary.

Quite a few Robin Hood supers make $150-345k per year, depsite being in some of the poorest counties in TX where annual income is under $30k per year. I'm not saying that supers should live in poverty and of course you have to pay competively to hire great people, but seriously, it's necessary to pay a super 6X the area's median income?? Edcouch-Elsa's current super makes $105k per year (4X area median family income of $26k), but his predecessor made over $160k (6.1X times the median income). Craziness & wasteful
Looking at that Peyton Wolcott website makes me pretty angry if those assertions are indeed facts. :\
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,564 posts, read 2,297,977 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
There are some delightful "nuggets" of info in this link to what some of the valley area schools (which are property poor and get extra funding from HPISD and other property rich schools) did with their RH funds in recent years-->

PEYTON WOLCOTT - Is Robin Hood working? A closer look at Texas' MALDEF schools

Some of my personal favorites:
1. Harlingen ISD has a 6-person PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT, complete with it's own TV studio. WTF?? This district got $100M in state & federal funding in 2008. How much do you think 6 PR dept salaries cost each year, with benefits? $300K? More?

2. Edcouch-Elsa ISD's online budget records show $30M in budgeted expense lines, yet they were funded with $87M. WTF are they doing with a $57M "surplus" yet only $13M in the bank. What did they spend the other $44M on??? This district has 5,600 students (1,000 smaller than HPISD), yet is spending $13,200/student vs HPISD's $8,300, a 59% increase and still, the district is only ranked Academically Acceptable (2nd worst).

3. Edgewood ISD has constructed an "Employee Fitness Center" since the Robin Hood funds began to roll in. How many of our wealthy DFW school districts have these??

This is an interesting read, too:
Texas Superintendent Salaries: 2010-11

Note that HPISD's chief has the 41st highest salary in TX and Eanes ISD (Austin Westlake)'s chief has the 47th highest salary.

Quite a few Robin Hood supers make $150-345k per year, depsite being in some of the poorest counties in TX where annual income is under $30k per year. I'm not saying that supers should live in poverty and of course you have to pay competively to hire great people, but seriously, it's necessary to pay a super 6X the area's median income?? Edcouch-Elsa's current super makes $105k per year (4X area median family income of $26k), but his predecessor made over $160k (6.1X times the median income). Craziness & wasteful
I'm right with you on the PR departments and fitness centers. To be brutally honest, beggars cannot be choosers. Robin Hood money should be used for necessities only. Now as far as the super salaries go, that may be just a function of the marketplace. THe crappier/less prestigious a school or district is, the more that school/district will have to pay to attract quality teachers/staff. By virtue of its prestige, HP doesnt have to pay much to get the best teachers to go there. Teachers would be lined up around the block. Skyline HS in Dallas ISD on the other hand? not so much. Also I'm willing to bet that the job as HPISD super is probably a whole lot less stressful than being Dallas ISD super with all the challenges that go with managing such a diverse district. So that may just be what that is about.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:04 PM
 
96 posts, read 171,225 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
It's pretty easy to understand.

Here is the district's M&O budget for this year:
http://www.hpisd.org/Portals/0/docs/...ED.BUDGETS.pdf

As you can see, the district collected $105M in property taxes and on line 91 (Recapture), sent $67M to the state for redistribution. That's a 65% recapture this year.

The state funding portion of the distict's budget was $10M. This funds a set $/student and also some mandated programs like Special Ed. The state funding comes from about 50% taxes / lottery / budget appropriation and 50% school district property taxes.

Robin Hood is a mandate that no district should have wealth of over $X/ student and any wealth over that goes back to the state via recapture. It also operates on an archiac funding formula based on a 1991 or 1992 "cost of education" index.

When you examine the state education funding, recapture is a revenue line (just like it's an expense on our M&O), so I get how one could argue, "well, we get $5M back per student in state funding and 50% of state funding is from property taxes so we really just got back $2.5M for a 62% net recapture rate", but that's still a s-ton of unregulated monies going out of your wallet every year!!
that's still lower than what i would have expected (net payout to robinhood of about 35%-40%) but it's still much better than 75% or something everyone is always quoting me.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:36 AM
 
11,681 posts, read 21,263,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akpack View Post
that's still lower than what i would have expected (net payout to robinhood of about 35%-40%) but it's still much better than 75% or something everyone is always quoting me.

How are you coming up with net payout of 35-40%?

Gross Taxes Collected = $105M

Gross RH recapture = $67M

State Funding = $10M (approx $5M from property taxes and $5M from other state income/funding)

If you figure the $5M in property tax-based funding we get from the state was part of the $67M we sent to Austin via recapture, then $67M-$5M = $62M net RH recapture. $62M / $105M = 59% net RH recapture (payment).
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:04 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,802,339 times
Reputation: 6264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
My #1 objection to Robin Hood is that there is ZERO accountability for where the money goes once it's in a "property poor" district's hands. Back in the early 1990's, Laredo was one of the big recipients of RH $$. They used it to build a state-of-the-art FOOTBALL STADIUM. .
Maybe they are trying to just compete with HP:

Texas high school has $4.5M facility fit for pros - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
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