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Old 01-24-2012, 09:03 AM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,184,357 times
Reputation: 931

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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I think the problem here is not the content of what you said which I actually agree with (I dont think RH funds should be used for football stadiums ever), but the source of the content, which would be you. A rich Parkie who's never had to struggle in her life telling poor kids that "life isnt fair, get over it" comes across as a bit...hmmm what's the word...arrogant maybe?

The bigger issue from my perspective is that no one out there in Laredo thought that maybe spending money on stadiums was a bad idea. If the educational standards are that bad, why on earth is this money not being poured into educational material/teachers? This is the problem. Not whether HP has a multi million dollar stadium. If Laredo and other poor ISDs had top notch education well maybe we could talk about the stadium, but not before.
I think the problem that TC80 was alluding to is that there is a lack of accountability on the part of the RH money disbursement. I agree, education first and then stadium second.

If you really think about it - you and TC80 are on the same page.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:31 AM
 
267 posts, read 366,909 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I think the problem here is not the content of what you said which I actually agree with (I dont think RH funds should be used for football stadiums ever), but the source of the content, which would be you. A rich Parkie who's never had to struggle in her life telling poor kids that "life isnt fair, get over it" comes across as a bit...hmmm what's the word...arrogant maybe?
Whether it is or isn't arrogant, the point remains. The state systematically takes money from a number of districts (including DISD!) and gives it to other districts, presumably in an effort to increase the educational standard and provide an adequate education to all of the kids across the state. Instead this money is used for PR, football stadiums, new buildings, and other diversions. If the Robin hood funds were used to hire 50 new teachers and we heard how the teacher/student ratio went from 35:1 to 20:1 and they now have a 90% graduation rate up from 60% etc.. I might say, well, that's money well spent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
The bigger issue from my perspective is that no one out there in Laredo thought that maybe spending money on stadiums was a bad idea. If the educational standards are that bad, why on earth is this money not being poured into educational material/teachers? This is the problem. Not whether HP has a multi million dollar stadium. If Laredo and other poor ISDs had top notch education well maybe we could talk about the stadium, but not before.
Even if it is being spent on educational material/teachers, the problem in those areas isn't with the teachers or educational materials. As in the thread I started on the differences between HPHS and Woodrow Wilson HS, the difference is not in the building or the teachers or the football stadium, it's in parental involvement, home life, and economic stability. Something a new stadium in Laredo isn't going to fix or even address. It's just flat out waste.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:55 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,820,457 times
Reputation: 6264
Was not going to post again to avoid getting excoriated however what the hell --

I am going to be writing a huge property tax check in a few days and as I have rental properties it's going to be as much as some annual salaries. I have to save for this all year. So of course I care about how schools are funded. And yes DISD is now paying out to Robin Hood. Personally I've seen what I consider a waste of money on Kincaide Stadium in my district. It's too big and poorly located.

However all these schools have to compete with each other in UIL competition. So when one school gets something there's a lot of pressure for another one to get the same facilities - is that 'fair competition' or do we even want 'fair competition'? A lot of money that could have gone for basics is going to go for this in one-upmanship and I'm sure some of it is going to be money extracted from property taxes. Is there a way to stop this?

The legislature has shirked its duties for too long and the debacle of school funding last year is deplorable.

Actually we at Woodrow are extremely lucky - we were cited for our parental involvement last week in the Dallas Morning News editorial Editorial: Foundation for next DISD chief | Dallas Morning News Editorials - Opinion and Commentary for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News "...the loyal parent groups already mentioned. Add Woodrow Wilson High School and Stonewall Jackson and Rosemont elementaries to the list"

We have a PTA board of 60, an alumni board of a dozen, a community foundation board of 15 and an advisory board of university and business leaders numbering almost three dozen.

We also have 53% economically disadvantaged (state average is 55%). So perhaps we are a bit more empathetic with the plight of those who do not have the same opportunities. Many schools near us are almost all economically disadvanted. HPHS has 0% disadvantaged. So maybe it doesn't garner good will to constantly complain about Robin Hood when your football team shows up in private buses fit for a rock star.

As far as athletics go, I have seen many, many kids who would probably never finish high school go on to much greater things because of their participation in athletics. I didn't even play, but I can see some kids get opportunities they would never otherwise have..here's a good example: TCU's Greg McCoy finds success through family and hard work | Sports top stories | Sports New...

But yes I can see how we have raised money for IB, a musical equal to Broadway and many other things that other schools cannot afford. Do I want our money taken from us to give to another school which cannot possibly raise such funds? No. But there are some unsettling aspects to this - my own philosophy is to throw everything at education and then if people don't take advantage of that they are on their own unless physically disabled.
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:15 PM
 
267 posts, read 366,909 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
I am going to be writing a huge property tax check in a few days and as I have rental properties it's going to be as much as some annual salaries. I have to save for this all year. So of course I care about how schools are funded. And yes DISD is now paying out to Robin Hood. Personally I've seen what I consider a waste of money on Kincaide Stadium in my district. It's too big and poorly located.

However all these schools have to compete with each other in UIL competition. So when one school gets something there's a lot of pressure for another one to get the same facilities - is that 'fair competition' or do we even want 'fair competition'? A lot of money that could have gone for basics is going to go for this in one-upmanship and I'm sure some of it is going to be money extracted from property taxes. Is there a way to stop this?

The legislature has shirked its duties for too long and the debacle of school funding last year is deplorable.
I think it should be against state law to spend property tax money designed for education on athletic activities beyond physical education and nutrition/exercise courses for students. If districts and cities want to fund athletics, they should be forced to do so with city funds either through a bond measure or some other tax which is specifically disclosed to the public that is for school athletics. It is a horrible shame that school systems which can't provide basic services have multi-million dollar football stadiums.

I realize this is Texas so football is the religion, but it is ridiculous where our money goes.
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:30 PM
 
7,314 posts, read 8,153,875 times
Reputation: 5409
Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
A rich Parkie who's never had to struggle in her life telling poor kids that "life isnt fair, get over it" comes across as a bit...hmmm what's the word...arrogant maybe?

1. How do you know she's never had to struggle?

2. I like you and most of your posts and I really appreciate your, "not from around here" perspective on things. But related to the above it's nonsense in the extreme to posit that wealthy people are lazy or lucky or undeserving or otherwise precluded from comment about how their money is spent. RH has been nothing short of a fabulous tax increase on a few.

In my experience almost everyone I know whom I would classify as wealthy is:

1. Smart
2. Driven
3. When everyone else was drinking beer and partying in college the were studying.
4. Work MUCH harder than most
5. Work smarter than most
6. Don't point fingers and look for excuses
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,574 posts, read 2,304,245 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1. How do you know she's never had to struggle?

2. I like you and most of your posts and I really appreciate your, "not from around here" perspective on things. But related to the above it's nonsense in the extreme to posit that wealthy people are lazy or lucky or undeserving or otherwise precluded from comment about how their money is spent. RH has been nothing short of a fabulous tax increase on a few.

In my experience almost everyone I know whom I would classify as wealthy is:

1. Smart
2. Driven
3. When everyone else was drinking beer and partying in college the were studying.
4. Work MUCH harder than most
5. Work smarter than most
6. Don't point fingers and look for excuses
Well in her own words, she is a "third generation parkie"...somehow, I highly doubt that someone with that pedigree had to struggle...but I could be wrong, and maybe she did have to eat ramen noodles every day, eat cereal with a fork to save the milk and walk in her shoes till the soles wore off. Regardless, I didnt call her or any other affluent person lazy or banned from commenting on how her money is spent. I actually agreed with her on the need for better regulation of how the RH money is spent.

As for your analysis of wealthy people...well I could poke holes in that one real quick. I attended TCU in Fort Worth, and paid bills by tutoring lots of rich kids who 1)were not smart 2) were too busy drinking and partying when everyone else was studying 3) KNEW that mommy and daddy already had a nice job laid out for them on graduation and so did not have any motivation to work hard.
Now is this every rich kid I knew? no, but rich kids are no different than any other subset...you have some who work hard, some who play hard and everything in between.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:26 PM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,918,769 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1. How do you know she's never had to struggle?

2. I like you and most of your posts and I really appreciate your, "not from around here" perspective on things. But related to the above it's nonsense in the extreme to posit that wealthy people are lazy or lucky or undeserving or otherwise precluded from comment about how their money is spent. RH has been nothing short of a fabulous tax increase on a few.

In my experience almost everyone I know whom I would classify as wealthy is:

1. Smart
2. Driven
3. When everyone else was drinking beer and partying in college the were studying.
4. Work MUCH harder than most
5. Work smarter than most
6. Don't point fingers and look for excuses
Agreed on all points..I like B4life's posts as well generally and I can see his point here. But I didn't take what TC said that way at all..What I would say to your points above is , higher achieving groups have historically always taken the blame for the failure of other groups to achieve-seems to be just the way it is. And all the demagoguery in our political system doesn't help matters..I think as a society we would all be better off if those groups focused on lifting themselves (and others) up instead of trying to drag the successful down with a sense of victimhood and grievance.

I am not super wealthy, but I consider myself well enough off. I ( and my lovely wife) worked hard, try not to complain and focus on the negative to the point it interferes with any upward mobility that is thrown our way. It's not easy by the way, nothing is, whether your well off or not.

And the example B4life gave of rich kids he tutored has holes as well..One really big one that comes to mind, which is economics has this whole thing all figured out, those kids will find that out soon enough. One way or another because money DOESN'T necessarily make life a magic carpet ride.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:40 PM
 
7,314 posts, read 8,153,875 times
Reputation: 5409
Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
Well in her own words, she is a "third generation parkie"...somehow, I highly doubt that someone with that pedigree had to struggle...but I could be wrong, and maybe she did have to eat ramen noodles every day, eat cereal with a fork to save the milk and walk in her shoes till the soles wore off. Regardless, I didnt call her or any other affluent person lazy or banned from commenting on how her money is spent. I actually agreed with her on the need for better regulation of how the RH money is spent.

As for your analysis of wealthy people...well I could poke holes in that one real quick. I attended TCU in Fort Worth, and paid bills by tutoring lots of rich kids who 1)were not smart 2) were too busy drinking and partying when everyone else was studying 3) KNEW that mommy and daddy already had a nice job laid out for them on graduation and so did not have any motivation to work hard.
Now is this every rich kid I knew? no, but rich kids are no different than any other subset...you have some who work hard, some who play hard and everything in between.
I'm not talking about college kids with wealthy parents. I'm talking about adults who have made wealth or maintained family wealth. TC80 isn't a spoiled kid wading through college.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:15 PM
 
256 posts, read 367,133 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
In my experience almost everyone I know whom I would classify as wealthy is:

1. Smart
2. Driven
3. When everyone else was drinking beer and partying in college the were studying.
4. Work MUCH harder than most
5. Work smarter than most
6. Don't point fingers and look for excuses
This is true for most if not all self-made upper middle class or wealthy professionals. But there are also a lot of people with major inherited family money who don't do a d*** thing, or don't do much beyond dabbling.

They are not smart or driven at all, but their family wealth gives them a comfortable, fail-safe cushion, connections, and leisure. (One former president comes to mind, but never mind at about that...) I'm not saying TC80 is in this category, BTW, although I have known more than a couple of Parkie frat boy types who are.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:16 PM
 
2,695 posts, read 3,606,700 times
Reputation: 1555
Let the class warfare begin...
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