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Old 01-15-2012, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinipig523 View Post
What I have so far...


3. UP - 1M budget
Property tax @ 2.04% = $20,400/yr
Homestead exemption - approx 20% (?) = $200,000 x 2.04% = $4,080
Home owners insurance approx?

Corrections? These are estimates? Did I get the UP HS exemption right?
You're calc-ing correctly IF you're subtracting the $4k from the $20k, making UP tax bill $16k per year. The exemptions come off prior to your bill being sent.

You still need to take off the $15k exemption on the ISD portion to get a more accurate answer but you're within a few $100's.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,812 posts, read 3,574,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinipig523 View Post
OK so I'm learning.

So the property tax of each area is broken down into several parameters (ISD, etc). Then apparently each of these have their "own" homestead exemption?

So homestead is more complicated than just a blanket term for the entire house amount?
Yes.

I've got several 'burbs input into excel to calc prop taxes. There are 3 aspects to property taxes:

A) the town/village/municipality. Some have homestead exemptions (Coppell and Grapevine do), many don't (Southlake and Flower Mound do not). However, these tax rates are usually quite low. For example, Southlake's property tax rate is 0.462% and Flower Mound's is 0.4497% (looked these up last year, it's possible they may have changed slightly since then). So the town of Southlake would charge $4,620 in property taxes on a 1M house.

Coppell (tax rate of 0.69046%) has a homestead exemption of 5% of appraised value, which sounds like a lot, but at that tax rate you're talking an effective reduction of about 3.5 basis points, or $345.23 in annual property taxes. Not that an extra $345 isn't nice, but if one is looking at buying a $1M home that sort of thing kinda falls into "rounding error"

B) The county. Denton County (all/almost all of Flower Mound) has a property tax rate of 0.2739%, Tarrant County has a rate of 0.629537%. As far as I know these counties have no homestead exemption. There may be senior exemptions of some sort but I know nothing about those. I believe the Dallas County rate is 0.62% (would be applicable to the Park Cities). Dunno the Collin County rate if you wanted to think about Plano, but again, it's easy enough to find online.

C) the ISD. These rates are generally the highest of the 3. IIRC, by state law every ISD must give a 15K homestead exemption, but some may have more. The Carroll ISD rate is 1.415%, the Lewisville rate is 1.4267%. GCISD (Grapevine-Colleyville) is 1.29%. Don't know the rate for HPISD as we're not looking there, but again, easy enough to look up online. CISD, LISD and GCISD only offer the 15K homestead exemption.

A separate issue would be if appraised values for tax purposes tend to be slightly higher or lower than the perceived "market" values of homes. I have no idea if certain towns lean towards the "higher" side on appraisals or not.

Anyway, the actual tax amounts vary slightly depending on the home value, due to the exemptions, but the variances are quite small. And yes, just adding up the 3 factors, Flower Mound taxes are ~2.15% while Southlake's are 2.51% (about $3,560 higher annually in Southlake on a 1M house, or ~$300/month). Again, dunno about Park Cities because it's Out Of My Price Range so the numbers aren't on my spreadsheet, but you can look them up pretty quickly.

Hope that helps,

-synchronicity, have spreadsheet, will travel
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:06 PM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,184,357 times
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Essentially - considering all others equal. A crude estimate of my likely flawed calculation shows that if you buy a $1M home in Southlake vs UP, you get...

Considering a 15y mortgage at 4.5% w/ 0% down (to simplify calculations), no PMI.

Southlake @ 2.52% property tax, near negligible $15K state mandate HS exemption.
$9,733.27/mo x 12 = $116,799.24/yr

UP @ 2.04% property tax, 20% across the board HS exemption.
$8,983.27/mo x 12 = $107,799.24/yr

So technically, you can afford to buy a $1.08M home in UP and pay nearly the same as a $1M home in Southlake considering:

1.08M in UP:
$9,728.59/mo

So you have an approximately 8% more buying power in UP than you would in Southlake.

I did not account for homeowners insurance in my calculations.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:08 PM
 
11,687 posts, read 21,287,638 times
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2011 Tax Rates

Also looks like city of Keller offers 1% HS off city tax portion. See above.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:10 PM
 
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Best explanation I've read yet.

Thanks sync.

But you do bring up a good point - I wonder if certain cities "over-appraise" more than other places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post
Yes.

I've got several 'burbs input into excel to calc prop taxes. There are 3 aspects to property taxes:

A) the town/village/municipality. Some have homestead exemptions (Coppell and Grapevine do), many don't (Southlake and Flower Mound do not). However, these tax rates are usually quite low. For example, Southlake's property tax rate is 0.462% and Flower Mound's is 0.4497% (looked these up last year, it's possible they may have changed slightly since then). So the town of Southlake would charge $4,620 in property taxes on a 1M house.

Coppell (tax rate of 0.69046%) has a homestead exemption of 5% of appraised value, which sounds like a lot, but at that tax rate you're talking an effective reduction of about 3.5 basis points, or $345.23 in annual property taxes. Not that an extra $345 isn't nice, but if one is looking at buying a $1M home that sort of thing kinda falls into "rounding error"

B) The county. Denton County (all/almost all of Flower Mound) has a property tax rate of 0.2739%, Tarrant County has a rate of 0.629537%. As far as I know these counties have no homestead exemption. There may be senior exemptions of some sort but I know nothing about those. I believe the Dallas County rate is 0.62% (would be applicable to the Park Cities). Dunno the Collin County rate if you wanted to think about Plano, but again, it's easy enough to find online.

C) the ISD. These rates are generally the highest of the 3. IIRC, by state law every ISD must give a 15K homestead exemption, but some may have more. The Carroll ISD rate is 1.415%, the Lewisville rate is 1.4267%. GCISD (Grapevine-Colleyville) is 1.29%. Don't know the rate for HPISD as we're not looking there, but again, easy enough to look up online. CISD, LISD and GCISD only offer the 15K homestead exemption.

A separate issue would be if appraised values for tax purposes tend to be slightly higher or lower than the perceived "market" values of homes. I have no idea if certain towns lean towards the "higher" side on appraisals or not.

Anyway, the actual tax amounts vary slightly depending on the home value, due to the exemptions, but the variances are quite small. And yes, just adding up the 3 factors, Flower Mound taxes are ~2.15% while Southlake's are 2.51% (about $3,560 higher annually in Southlake on a 1M house, or ~$300/month). Again, dunno about Park Cities because it's Out Of My Price Range so the numbers aren't on my spreadsheet, but you can look them up pretty quickly.

Hope that helps,

-synchronicity, have spreadsheet, will travel
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:12 PM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,184,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
2011 Tax Rates

Also looks like city of Keller offers 1% HS off city tax portion. See above.
I saw that... so Keller has 1% off local option - this only means city tax portion? In the same table, Westlake and Plano have 20%HS off local option - does this only apply to city tax?

Not to the whole tax?

I'm getting a headache.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,812 posts, read 3,574,957 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinipig523 View Post
Essentially - considering all others equal. A crude estimate of my likely flawed calculation shows that if you buy a $1M home in Southlake vs UP, you get...

Considering a 15y mortgage at 4.5% w/ 0% down (to simplify calculations), no PMI.

Southlake @ 2.52% property tax, near negligible $15K state mandate HS exemption.
$9,733.27/mo x 12 = $116,799.24/yr

UP @ 2.04% property tax, 20% across the board HS exemption.
$8,983.27/mo x 12 = $107,799.24/yr

So technically, you can afford to buy a $1.08M home in UP and pay nearly the same as a $1M home in Southlake considering:

1.08M in UP:
$9,728.59/mo

So you have an approximately 8% more buying power in UP than you would in Southlake.

I did not account for homeowners insurance in my calculations.
The property tax cost may be the same, but obviously your monthly mortgage payment will be slightly higher. Also, if you want to drill down that far, you'll need to consider Homeowner's Association dues (if any).

A far larger factor (IMHO) is that a home in Southlake or FM will be far larger than an equally priced home in UP, which will mean higher utility bills (heating and cooling 4,500+ sf will cost a bunch more than 3,500-. Yes, Park Cities homes are older and possibly may be less energy efficient than the newer homes, but I can't imagine the difference is that great, since Park cities denizens can certainly afford additional insulation and whatnot if they so desire).

Believe me, I get what you're doing (my own home budgeting spreadsheet has vlookups for mortgage rates and has a federal income tax calc to adjust the itemized deductions based on the size of the mortgage and interest rate, along with the property tax charts and a PMI lookup table and several other things, have I mentioned that I crunch numbers way too much?), but don't get lost in the trees as you're looking at the forest.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:14 PM
 
11,687 posts, read 21,287,638 times
Reputation: 10086
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinipig523 View Post
Essentially - considering all others equal. A crude estimate of my likely flawed calculation shows that if you buy a $1M home in Southlake vs UP, you get...

Considering a 15y mortgage at 4.5% w/ 0% down (to simplify calculations), no PMI.

Southlake @ 2.52% property tax, near negligible $15K state mandate HS exemption.
$9,733.27/mo x 12 = $116,799.24/yr

UP @ 2.04% property tax, 20% across the board HS exemption.
$8,983.27/mo x 12 = $107,799.24/yr

So technically, you can afford to buy a $1.08M home in UP and pay nearly the same as a $1M home in Southlake considering:

1.08M in UP:
$9,728.59/mo

So you have an approximately 8% more buying power in UP than you would in Southlake.

I did not account for homeowners insurance in my calculations.
Sounds about right. In Dallas, you can buy about 20% more home in the Park Cities (HP's tax rate is even lower than UP's) than in Lakewood or other DISD neighborhoods because the Dallas city and DISD taxes are so high!

But it all goes back to lifestyle- I'm assuming a $1M home in SL is going to come with a lot more SF, bigger lot size, and newer than a $1.0-1.1M home in UP/HPISD. One may be closer to work than the other b/c they're pretty far apart! One is more about living a city lifestyle; the other is strictly suburban. Intangibles.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,812 posts, read 3,574,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
But it all goes back to lifestyle- I'm assuming a $1M home in SL is going to come with a lot more SF, bigger lot size, and newer than a $1.0-1.1M home in UP/HPISD. One may be closer to work than the other b/c they're pretty far apart! One is more about living a city lifestyle; the other is strictly suburban. Intangibles.
Yes. This. Bears repeating. Numbers are easy, people are complicated. If you can afford Park Cities but are also considering Southlake, the non-financial issues are going to dominate more than the financial ones. Nothing wrong with drilling down as much as you want, but in the end it's about lifestyle choices and weighing/prioritizing those items.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:19 PM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,184,357 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post
The property tax cost may be the same, but obviously your monthly mortgage payment will be slightly higher. Also, if you want to drill down that far, you'll need to consider Homeowner's Association dues (if any).

A far larger factor (IMHO) is that a home in Southlake or FM will be far larger than an equally priced home in UP, which will mean higher utility bills (heating and cooling 4,500+ sf will cost a bunch more than 3,500-. Yes, Park Cities homes are older and possibly may be less energy efficient than the newer homes, but I can't imagine the difference is that great, since Park cities denizens can certainly afford additional insulation and whatnot if they so desire).

Believe me, I get what you're doing (my own home budgeting spreadsheet has vlookups for mortgage rates and has a federal income tax calc to adjust the itemized deductions based on the size of the mortgage and interest rate, along with the property tax charts and a PMI lookup table and several other things, have I mentioned that I crunch numbers way too much?), but don't get lost in the trees as you're looking at the forest.
Trees vs Forest - got it. You're absolutely right. I don't think I'm going to go into as much numerical detail as you did, but I just wanted to get an idea.

You're right HOA does also affect it somewhat. Geezuz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Sounds about right. In Dallas, you can buy about 20% more home in the Park Cities (HP's tax rate is even lower than UP's) than in Lakewood or other DISD neighborhoods because the Dallas city and DISD taxes are so high!

But it all goes back to lifestyle- I'm assuming a $1M home in SL is going to come with a lot more SF, bigger lot size, and newer than a $1.0-1.1M home in UP/HPISD. One may be closer to work than the other b/c they're pretty far apart! One is more about living a city lifestyle; the other is strictly suburban. Intangibles.
Yes, I have those intangibles in mind - I'm going to have to drive further, it's more urban lifestyle at UP.
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