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Old 01-26-2012, 10:34 PM
 
7,292 posts, read 8,131,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbeth2003 View Post
Spot on. Regulations should go as far as they need to, no more no less. I don't think right now slaughterhouses are under-regulated, but I agree that the laws and regulations are terribly under-enforced. Look at how many fewer inspections of facilities, and product there are then there used to be. I don't think there are any new regulations needed here, the problem is that it was allowed to get to this point. There have been rumors and complaints about this kind of thing going on for a while. There is no way inspections should be so infrequent and so poorly carried out, that anyone should be able to build, maintain and use an illegal dumping pipe like this. The penalties also need to be severe. It is ridiculous to pass laws and regulations, and - as is done in many cases - keep the penalties so small that it makes economic sense to break the law and pay the fines when caught, rather than to follow the law.

Another regulation here would be like looking at a murder and finding that the murderer was rumored to be trying to kill the victim, bought illegal poisons, built a complex poison delivery system, left that in plain view, and then complaining that what we really needed was a new stronger anti-murder law. No what we need is competent aggressive enforcement.
I think that's just about exactly right.

Relatedly, assuming we are dealing with pigs blood in significant quantities. I'd hope there are specific state and federal laws in place to smoke these jokers in court straight to prison.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:38 PM
 
7,292 posts, read 8,131,285 times
Reputation: 5381
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamiJ View Post
Neighbors regularly heard the sounds of squealing pigs being slaughtered. Thousands of gallons of blood drained. Dead pig carcasses chopped, sliced and diced. All so that we can have bacon, ham, hot dogs, baby back ribs to munch on.
I'm an adherent of the livestock expert Dr. Temple Grandin. Generally, her thesis is that livestock are for us to use and consume. However, it is in our interest and the animal's to treat them with respect.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,043,591 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateBooster View Post
THAT is how the market works... Word gets out about this or that, and before you know it, a company that is cheating its customers or doing other unethical things loses customers/business and can't do the bad things it was doing before... And, it becomes an example for others not to follow.

Really? Can you you name one instance where that's happened?
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:11 AM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,914,916 times
Reputation: 1505
We weren't meant to live this way..Once we moved away from being an agrarian society we've gone down hill with our treatment and respect towards animals.

We should be working the land, keeping our bodies fit, raising our own livestock naturally, growing our own food on our own swath, and treating it with the same level of respect the American Indians had for the Buffalo and the land.

In my opinion, this is what Mother Nature intended for us. We've gone astray, but will most likely come full circle as a species. Just my two cents, and I am no squishy tree hugger either, we've just lost our connection with nature and have such a lack of respect because of it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,043,591 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by skids929 View Post
We weren't meant to live this way..Once we moved away from being an agrarian society we've gone down hill with our treatment and respect towards animals.

We should be working the land, keeping our bodies fit, raising our own livestock naturally, growing our own food on our own swath, and treating it with the same level of respect the American Indians had for the Buffalo and the land.

In my opinion, this is what Mother Nature intended for us. We've gone astray, but will most likely come full circle as a species. Just my two cents, and I am no squishy tree hugger either, we've just lost our connection with nature and have such a lack of respect because of it.
Oh, my. That sounds exactly like the program which the Khymer Rouge inflicted on the people of Cambodia.

You can't turn back the clock.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:08 AM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,914,916 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Oh, my. That sounds exactly like the program which the Khymer Rouge inflicted on the people of Cambodia.

You can't turn back the clock.
Agreed..Just my two cents. A sad observation of the human species from my point of view.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,295 posts, read 8,421,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I think that's just about exactly right.

Relatedly, assuming we are dealing with pigs blood in significant quantities. I'd hope there are specific state and federal laws in place to smoke these jokers in court straight to prison.
That's the point you're not getting. It's highly likely these crooks will get off with a slap on the wrist, especially in deregulation happy Texas. The politicians will cry "we need the slaughterhouse for jobs, what's good for industry is good for us". Meanwhile, the Trinity River literally becomes crimson red with blood.

Do you honestly believe something like this would ever happen in California or even Austin? If this had happened in Austin, the whole city would be holding a march and that business would literally have been shut down the day it was detected and environmental crews dispatched to the site to clean the creek up. Even if there is action there, it's highly likely nothing will change there until all the court proceedings are done, and you know that company will hire the best lawyers. So it could keep polluting for years before anything is done. And this is right next to your downtown skyline.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Junius Heights
1,245 posts, read 2,940,783 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Do you honestly believe something like this would ever happen in California or even Austin? If this had happened in Austin, the whole city would be holding a march and that business would literally have been shut down the day it was detected and environmental crews dispatched to the site to clean the creek up.
No it wouldn't. First of all no one can shut the business down without due process. That was what my observation was about earlier when i said that it might be obvious to you, me and most everyone else what was going on here, but that is a whole lot different than proving it. If it were shut down without following the required legal steps that would be illegal.

Secondly neither Dallas, nor Austin maintains an environmental team that can clean a river. That would be something requiring state or federal action, and is therefore unrelated to whether it is happening in Dallas, or in Austin.

Thirdly, I understand that this is mostly a local issue and so living in Austin you would probably be unaware of it, but there is a huge environmental problem in that part of town. Unfortunately this slaughterhouse is far from the only offender. There is a scrap metal plant which has flouted several laws and regulations, and other companies. The city council and mayor, are currently making a big issue, in response to community pressure and protest, to cite prosecute, and force these businesses to comply. Do there need to be more funds, and time spent on this? Yes there do, and believe me people here are screaming for that. Read our paper, listen to any of the "man on the street" interviews on our new shows.

Please don't imply that my city is full of people who don't care about violations like this. It simply isn't the case.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,295 posts, read 8,421,017 times
Reputation: 5312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbeth2003 View Post
No it wouldn't. First of all no one can shut the business down without due process. That was what my observation was about earlier when i said that it might be obvious to you, me and most everyone else what was going on here, but that is a whole lot different than proving it. If it were shut down without following the required legal steps that would be illegal.

Secondly neither Dallas, nor Austin maintains an environmental team that can clean a river. That would be something requiring state or federal action, and is therefore unrelated to whether it is happening in Dallas, or in Austin.

Thirdly, I understand that this is mostly a local issue and so living in Austin you would probably be unaware of it, but there is a huge environmental problem in that part of town. Unfortunately this slaughterhouse is far from the only offender. There is a scrap metal plant which has flouted several laws and regulations, and other companies. The city council and mayor, are currently making a big issue, in response to community pressure and protest, to cite prosecute, and force these businesses to comply. Do there need to be more funds, and time spent on this? Yes there do, and believe me people here are screaming for that. Read our paper, listen to any of the "man on the street" interviews on our new shows.

Please don't imply that my city is full of people who don't care about violations like this. It simply isn't the case.
Let me restate:

If this happened in Austin, either the slaughterhouse would shutdown, or there may be an "accidental" fire that occurred at the property the next day. I don't condone these activities, but Austin wouldn't tolerate this, one way or another.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
326 posts, read 635,407 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Let me restate:

If this happened in Austin, either the slaughterhouse would shutdown, or there may be an "accidental" fire that occurred at the property the next day. I don't condone these activities, but Austin wouldn't tolerate this, one way or another.
Hmmph. And if there's any justice in the world, anyone that would cause the "accidental" fire would be locked up in a jail cell right next to the polluter, for the maximum sentence allowed by law. Eco terrorists are still terrorists, regardless of the motivation....
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