U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2014, 02:58 PM
 
2,206 posts, read 3,792,030 times
Reputation: 2073

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGold View Post
Time out! Since you guys have it all figured out so please answer a question for me.

Q. Taking both Choir and Theater has a negative impact on your GPA but it adds to EC, what's your advice? Keep both or drop one for another AP?
You have to manage your time the last three years in HS as well as college.

A class that is time sink in some way and which does not contribute meat to the transcript should be avoided.

In general, in a competitive HS program, you will require six hours of studying per week per hard class to guarantee an A.

That is 36 hours a week. Put in 8 hours on the weekend that leaves 24 hours during the week. That is FIVE HOURS a day.

Since you are in class from 8-4 most days, that leaves the time from 4-11pm to study with a break for dinner and family.

A band class requiring practice outside of class or travel or sports means you will have less time to study and less energy to do it right.

I went to a very competitive HS with tracks and a very tough AP program. We stripped our lives down to the bare essentials our Jr and Sr years. And I still had some all nighters. And I was the the smartest in my class.

Other classmates had it far worse. One girl gave up second chair in the local philharmonic. Another gave up going to state in his sport. I quit varsity football. My friend who went to West Point sacrificed his A in Latin Class to stay in sports.

I would start with a weekly schedule in excel. Put in the class time and then the six hours of study time per class. Then see how much you have left.

Keep in mind that you will need some wiggle room due to BS, like getting sick or long projects.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-06-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,346 posts, read 5,791,659 times
Reputation: 2284
You were asking this question in another thread from the context of a future PWSH student.

Your options in PISD are pretty limited for 9th grade, honestly. You have two free spaces after Math/English/Social Studies/Foreign Language/Science, but not much to choose from, besides unweighted classes.

That long laundry list of APs that PISD likes to brag about are, with very few exceptions, only available to juniors and seniors. At best, you could take Art H or try to get special permission to take Scientific Research & Design H as a 9th grader. But that's unlikely to happen unless you have a research project already lined up outside of school.

FWIW, taking Theater/Choir as a 9th grader, then walking away from the activity beyond that, will serve ZERO purpose for college apps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
13 posts, read 17,545 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
There are a number of issues here.

You would have to show that the top 2% at Baylor are below the top 2% at the given school of your choice using some objective measure like the MCAT. I would guess that there is a cluster at Baylor near the top end like at any school. I would not make a bet either way without data and would assume that both are very close.

Given the racial/cultural bias at most "elite" schools, there are a lot of white and Asian kids who are settling for state public/private schools. This is what makes comparisons tricky today for the high end elite student groups.

For someone in pre-med at a school with an objective grading rule, and with an elite contingent, the competition will be fierce. Sadly, most of the Ivies do not have an objective A/B rule like many of the "lesser" schools like Baylor or UT.

I know UT did when I was there. Even the lowly SMU MBA school does as well.

But Harvard? Come on? We all know to get in to Harvard ENTITLES you to a life of success!! WHY even try?

Substantiating Fears of Grade Inflation, Dean Says Median Grade at Harvard College Is A-, Most Common Grade Is A | News | The Harvard Crimson
No, I would have to show no such thing. First, let's drop MCATs. I understand you're missing a fair amount of context here from another thread, but what we're talking about is his son's undergraduate course of study. Whether his competition was generally, by average, as steep at Baylor as it would have been at a higher ranked school with higher SAT admission statistics is what is at issue, and whether there are a few students at the top at Baylor who could hang with the top kids at elite school X is not dispositive, or arguably even relevant. Of course, there are REALLY bright people everywhere. I venture to guess there are middle aged people at Seattle Central Community College who can run circles around us and who are there because of circumstance. Even factoring that in, or factoring in your theory about Asian and White smarties who are at Baylor and not at the elites because of discrimination, I would not assume the top 2% at Baylor could run with the top 2% at Harvard or MIT or Chicago. That would not be a safe bet.

Racial and Cultural bias at most elite schools? Not sure what that even means. I will tell you this: you can be female, black, gay and poor, and you are not getting into an Ivy league school with an average SAT score. I actually know this.

You may or may not be right about the more fierce competition based on some pretty generalized ideas you put forth. Don't know. But I think I'm on pretty solid ground in saying that if you want to excel at Stanford, not only do you need to clear an impossibly high hurdle to get in, you will be vying for those top grades against the best of the best of the best of THE BEST. Not a version of the best of the best who generated as a group a 25th percentile SAT score in the low 500s. And I freely admit that Stanford is notorious for going easy on you once you get it. But they do that because you cleared a much higher hurdle to even be there. Moreover, wherever you are, you are not ever just competing against the top 2%. You're competing with everyone. So if your 98th to 1st percentile, as a group, is less talented than the same group at, say, Rice, then it follows that you had less competition in terms of talent.

I do understand your point about how much more cut-throat it is at lower level schools with discreet grading practices, and I don't dismiss it entirely out of hand. However, I think that goes to something else, and it doesn't really change my point for the reasons I've stated. Besides, there's a Baylor example everywhere. It's not unique to Texas.

Last edited by HuskyLawyer; 03-06-2014 at 04:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2014, 12:30 PM
 
7,283 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyLawyer View Post
No, I would have to show no such thing. First, let's drop MCATs. I understand you're missing a fair amount of context here from another thread, but what we're talking about is his son's undergraduate course of study. Whether his competition was generally, by average, as steep at Baylor as it would have been at a higher ranked school with higher SAT admission statistics is what is at issue, and whether there are a few students at the top at Baylor who could hang with the top kids at elite school X is not dispositive, or arguably even relevant. Of course, there are REALLY bright people everywhere. I venture to guess there are middle aged people at Seattle Central Community College who can run circles around us and who are there because of circumstance. Even factoring that in, or factoring in your theory about Asian and White smarties who are at Baylor and not at the elites because of discrimination, I would not assume the top 2% at Baylor could run with the top 2% at Harvard or MIT or Chicago. That would not be a safe bet.
How did I miss all of this?

Something that you are missing is the DM's from the parents above who asked about UTSW. These kids are all top rung students. My son has lived that life since he was little. Each of these kids including my son were accepted into TAMS.

Baylor was a game theory choice for our son/us. He earned a 100% tuition, on-campus living and books scholarship to Baylor so all in Baylor cost us around $30K for living expenses, beer, gas, spring breaks etc. Notre Dame nor either of the Ivys offer merit based scholarships to anyone. Notre Dame would have cost roughly $300K all in. The others similar. So the net is we will be able to pay for college ($30K), medical school (~$160K minus what earns doing paid research this summer and other paid opps) and part of his first home or a portion of his first partnership capital contribution and still have money left over vs. sending him to Notre Dame, Yale or Brown. That may not make any sense to you but it certainly did to us. Further, undergrad is a step along the path for these kids not an end point. All time Baylor is the number 2 supplier of students to UTSW behind UT, what you think about Baylor is Quisling-speak relative to that.

According to one of the rankings UTSW is the 8th best medical school on Earth. Admission into UTSW is brutally difficult - the median MCAT is at the 96th percentile for an example. And my son got in and is thriving. Your implication that Baylor hurt him or was somehow a copout selection or that he would have faltered under different circumstances seems ludacris.

Also your logic vis a vis the little girl that we know and my son's choice of Baylor is asinine on another level as well. As of now her choices are take and 7% rule auto-admit to UT and study something she does not like or go to a non-competitive division III school that more or less takes everyone who applies. My son's choices ranged from Baylor to Brown to Washington University and he chose Baylor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2014, 03:15 PM
 
655 posts, read 753,755 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyLawyer View Post
So, from the thread in which we were introduced, you seem to place A LOT of stock on SAT scores. Baylor, the 75th ranked school in the national university category in US NEWS, has the following SAT score data for the 25th and 75th percentiles of admitted students:

Baylor Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 550 / 660
SAT Math: 570 / 670
SAT Writing: 530 / 650

You'll have to excuse me, and by this I mean no disrespect to Baylor, you or your son, or to anyone who attended there, but those are relatively blue collar SAT stats, and they are nowhere near Ivy League or MIT standards ... I'll say it again - not even close. So, based on your previous comments about the SAT, and the doomed fate of your "friend's" daughter who did poorly by average 520 on each section, how exactly should we expect Baylor kids to do when competing with Harvard and MIT kids? Because you need to be at or over 2200 to have any real shot at getting in those schools.


I have to admit that I am surprised by your position in the other thread (which was locked before I could reply to your dodging response) vis a vis the fact that your son attended Baylor. Sure, it's an ok school, but the truth is, attending Baylor probably isn't any different than attending Texas A&M or Arizona State: it isn't going to make any difference in one's life opportunities and will depend entirely on how one does at each school.

I would have guessed with your post content that your son was a Rice graduate or something in that echelon of academia. Rice is the truly elite school in Texas, and it's by a long shot. It is the ONLY Ivy League equivalent school in that state. Your kid competed at a school with A LOT of kids whose SAT scores were not far off from that which your "friend's" daughter achieved. I ask again: why do you tell people that low SAT scores means dreams are permanently crushed, careers are permanently limited and that it shows a proxy for native intelligence?

Lady, send your daughter to school maximizing these three variables as best you can: national reputation and resources, cost and her own happiness and where you and she believe, based on your best judgment, she will be happy and successful. Don't try and find the best biology department someone on the internet says you need to find, and go with the best school factoring in the other two things. Why? She may be a doc. She may not. Plenty of kids start college saying med school, then don't do it for a variety of good reasons not relating to "I couldn't hack it." She may want to do something else. UT Austin is a great school. I can't see how you go wrong there.
I totally agree with what you said about Baylor. I think it's a solid school, but I feel the Baylor name is held in higher esteem because of the reputation of their graduate programs, not undergrad.

I graduated from a local Christian HS where many people attend and apply to Baylor, and you honestly had to be a complete idiot to not be admitted. The application was so easy it honestly should have been a coloring book. It was the only school I applied to that for whatever reason, did not require an essay as part of the application, and they provided a faster admission decision than state schools like Oklahoma.

They have a need for a relatively large Freshman class each year, and the stats on their Freshman class are nowhere near true top-tier schools.

If you perform extremely well at most flagship state universities, I honestly think you'll have just as good a shot at a top med program as you would coming from Baylor. I know several folks personally who are testaments to this for both med school & law school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2014, 07:03 PM
 
7,283 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMC_TX View Post
I totally agree with what you said about Baylor. I think it's a solid school, but I feel the Baylor name is held in higher esteem because of the reputation of their graduate programs, not undergrad.

I graduated from a local Christian HS where many people attend and apply to Baylor, and you honestly had to be a complete idiot to not be admitted. The application was so easy it honestly should have been a coloring book. It was the only school I applied to that for whatever reason, did not require an essay as part of the application, and they provided a faster admission decision than state schools like Oklahoma.

They have a need for a relatively large Freshman class each year, and the stats on their Freshman class are nowhere near true top-tier schools.

If you perform extremely well at most flagship state universities, I honestly think you'll have just as good a shot at a top med program as you would coming from Baylor. I know several folks personally who are testaments to this for both med school & law school.
In context, no one but Huskylawyer is talking about Baylor per se. I've been talking about Baylor's success sending kids to top medical schools, everything else vis a vis is irrelevant static. To that point Baylor should spin off its nursing and education programs into a separate school/set of schools.

Regarding the easy application, that was the old Baylor "quick app" which allowed people with high SAT scores + high GPAs to apply in a few minutes. Short of that you would have had to fill out the long application and if applying on time you would have had to fill out essay questions. I think the quick app is gone, that said the quick app answer, with stipulations, was immediate.

How many people do/did you know who went to top medical schools? Law school is a different animal.

I've had the opportunity to see the logs of where Baylor kids have attended medical school and it's very impressive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2014, 08:03 AM
 
272 posts, read 712,210 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
You have to manage your time the last three years in HS as well as college.

I went to a very competitive HS with tracks and a very tough AP program. We stripped our lives down to the bare essentials our Jr and Sr years.
If an AP class is taking this kind of effort, then the student isn't AP material or the teacher has expectations far beyond what success in the AP curriculum actually requires. Among my three kids who are old enough to take AP classes, I've "experienced" twenty four AP classes at competitive private schools -- including calculus, chemistry, bio, computer science, and physics. Their results have been mostly 5s, with a few 4s thrown in. In the classes they have received mostly As with a few Bs in the mix. Their high school lives are/were nowhere nearly as gruesome as the description in the above post would suggest. They have/had time time to be involved in sports, music, drama and academic competitions -- as well as plenty of time to relax and socialize with friends. I wouldn't advise anyone to sacrifice his or her life on the altar of AP classes, presumably chasing college admissions to elite schools. If my children were living this sort of life due to their academic choices, I would want to talk to them about pursuing some balance, even if it meant dropping the AP classes. A string of AP classes on the transcript just isn't worth not having a life.

To the poster asking about the negative GPA impact of taking both music and theater -- if you love both, take them both. Even if it prevents you from being valedictorian, it will make you a more interesting person. You would be surprised how often the interesting person beats out the academic drudge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-06-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,346 posts, read 5,791,659 times
Reputation: 2284
Go to TAMS and don't look back. Fin. EOM
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2015, 08:21 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,750 times
Reputation: 10
Hi Dodi1,

We just moved to Texas a year ago. My daughter is in 9th grade in lisd. She is planning to go to TAMS, but we are not very familiar with TAMS. We came across your post when researching TAMS.
Based on your last post, your son was accepted in TAMS. Is he enjoying TAMS, is he able to do research projects there?
We are still going back and forth on TAMS or Senior High. I am not sure what the advantages are of TAMS or Senior High. As an experienced parent with a son in TAMS, what do you think?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2015, 08:33 AM
 
7,283 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauw View Post
Hi Dodi1,

We just moved to Texas a year ago. My daughter is in 9th grade in lisd. She is planning to go to TAMS, but we are not very familiar with TAMS. We came across your post when researching TAMS.
Based on your last post, your son was accepted in TAMS. Is he enjoying TAMS, is he able to do research projects there?
We are still going back and forth on TAMS or Senior High. I am not sure what the advantages are of TAMS or Senior High. As an experienced parent with a son in TAMS, what do you think?

Sorry to butt-in. My son was accepted to TAMS, however, he decided not to attend. Two of the students in my son's large study group at UTSW medical are TAMS grads. Both of these students loved TAMS, recommend it to everyone who can get in, and both did research projects while at TAMS.


You are probably way ahead of what I'm about to offer-up but having been through this...........

1. Your kiddo will have to take the full SAT in advance by January Sophomore year. I'd take it at least twice - TAMS informally super-scores SAT results.
2. Your kiddo will need really strong letters of recommendation - IIRC the expectation is 2 from teachers, 1 being a math teacher, and 1 from an administrator.
3. I'm pretty sure it's not required but having the results of a real - professionally administered IQ test seemed to help our son - his interviewer talk about his results quite a bit.
4. Your kiddo must have Algebra II completed before admission but not pre-calculus.
5. You kiddo will have to hammer math tests similar to those below while sitting at TAMS and under time pressure. IIRC they expect 90 - 100% correct.
6. There's a lot of misinformation out there about costs. It's not free. Parents pay room and board and a $1,300 fee. The state legislature covers everything else.


https://tams.unt.edu/admissions/math-practice-exams


TAMS kids are offered exceptionally cool research opportunities - medicine, aerospace, air, math, biology etc. Some opportunities are on campus others are at NASA, Cal-Tech, MIT etc. Students are able to earn 2nd, 3rd and 4th research authorships pretty often and broad publication is not unusual.

https://tams.unt.edu/research



If your kid gets in and your family and your kiddo can tolerate being apart I'd highly recommend the program. Our son didn't go because of high school sports plus he wanted a full four year college expierence as well.

It's not unheard of for TAMS kids to go straight to medical school etc. It's a phenomenal program for certain kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top