Moving from Columbus to Denton to work at UNT (Dallas: low income, fit in)
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I accepted a postdoc position at UNT and am expecting to move to Denton from Columbus Ohio in August. The main thing I'm wondering is what I would expect in Denton or the DFW area coming from Columbus? I also grew up in Detroit and spent 4 year in Pittsburgh. I have been reading through this forum, but I'm curious if anyone can make some good comparisons. I'm especially curious about what the area is like culturally as I'll have to admit that everything I think I know about Texas has come from watching King of the Hill.
I will also be at UNT for about a week for a conference in June. I was thinking this might be a good time to look for an apartment. My postdoc position lasts 3 years so I'm thinking it's still probably a good idea to rent until I find a tenure track position somewhere. I heard that apartments are cheaper closer to campus because they're lower quality (but the proximity is nice). Honestly, I think a big thing for me would be to be around a young or lively crowd as long as it's relatively quiet at night. I also want a place where I could take cats. Does anyone have any suggestions on apartment hunting?
I've been to Ohio on business many times and am a former Chicagoan, so I think I know the Midwest a bit. Don't fret Denton. There are so many transplants from all over the country in DFW. You'll fit in just nicely.
DFW is not "King of the Hill" nor the TV show "Dallas". I hate the stereotypes that Hollywood makes us out to be.
Some (many) years since I've lived in Denton, but I'll try ..
1. A fairly poor college town. The "drag" which used to be in vicinity of Mulberry/ Hickory/Fry Street isn't what it used to be. Especially Fry Street, the student "drag" of cheap but good restaurants, clubs, record stores (ouch, I forgot, there are no record stores now) ... anyway the corp folks want to come in and put a CVS, a Barnes and Noble etc. (not that this is bad, but ...). The Flying Tomato and the other places on the drag there are still waiting to buy space there where their old places have been torn down. Some decent living near campus, Student housing around campus is, as you say, pretty inexpensive (read low income) frame often old apartments.
Near campus on the west is the Interstate highway, at least the usual chain restaurants and decent stuff there for everyone, especially since the drag has been torn down for now for the usual chain stores yet to be built. Students probably gravitate there because the "drag" near campus is dormant and waiting for investors ...
Downtown Denton, on the other hand, has really recently been built up around the old courthouse and it's a great place, so I hear. Maybe because the off-campus places have been shut down for now. Not completely close to campus but you can get there. Nightclubs are building up there. Festivals every year, nice things going on there.
UNT just built a new football stadium and I hope it attracts campus life.
2. UNT is the best music campus in the U.S. .. Berklee and U. Miami have great jazz studies, but UNT is the cheapest, has big-band and every other type of music, and the best looking women on campus too. Every day on campus is jazz with great young people from around the world in the jazz bands.
3. The rural areas around Denton used to be just that - green and cheap to buy. Only 40 years ago, I used to go my pal's place around Lake Dallas (Lake Lewisville) and there would be Indian arrowheads everywhere (late 60s). Find the sharpest Indian arrowhead, and win a prize. Now around Lake Lewisville is very full of people. No chance of arrowheads.
4. Just south of campus in places like Little Elm, the exurbs from Dallas have grown up. In Little Elm, houses may be fairly cheap but its very crowded because of all the development and roads are 2-lane and super congested and they want to build and are building 4-lane highways (when 15 years ago, they would be rural roads ..)
5. If living in Denton but couldn't find the nice big house/acreage you wanted for the price, I would look north at Sanger, Pilot Point, Celina, around Lake Ray Roberts etc. Still very rural. Man, that is huge horse country. Pretty land, fairly cheap the farther north, but a huge cowboy culture. If you are a high school girl, you wear a black cowboy hat. Pretty country. About everyone up there either owns horses, raises horses, trains horses, rides horses, puts-up somebody elses horses, hopes your horse wins at Lone Star Park (near Dallas) etc. ... horse as a pet. Fun. Green, fairly flat prairie country, the lake is nice.
Shayne_: What brings you to Denton? Have you been in the area to compare the two?
ggolf: That's good to know. It's sort of a job requirement for people in my situation when they're younger to be able to move around or not. But I'm still a creature of habit and like things to be somewhat familiar. But I also think it's good if there are people from all over as from my (limited) experience I get along better in those sorts of place (this is where Cinci and Columbus are different).
notpictured: Thanks for the very detailed information! I will have a car and am single so this is definitely useful for me. One question I do have is how dominant is the hipster crowd? I've never really felt at home in those sorts of crowds, but I'm not really sure how to describe what I might be looking for.
you are right about the apartments around campus--fairly blighted IMO and my son lived in that area for several years getting his BA and MA
Many of his friends who graduated have continued in live in the Denton area--perpetual students in some respects--and some not--they just have jobs and are able to live in Denton
there is a grunge effect there but also strong group of country-western locals so you have kind of warring groups in the area to some extent
IF you did not want to live IN Denton--there is public transportation from Vista Ridge Mall area with bus transport free with your student ID
there is also public transport from inside Dallas/DART to Denton for students
but that takes more time and is not always convenient
my son tells me that there is more crime around UNT than is reported because the school tends to keep a lid on that
that it has become much more of a wanna-be football school with the attendant fraternity/sorority hubbub--not that he was into that thinking but it is growing student group on campus
as grad student you might find it difficult to get outside the university culture--Denton sometimes looks down on the students who drive its economy
frankly lot of Denton looks grungy to me--the times we went up there to see our son, I was not impressed with the cleanliness of the town--many of the small strip centers are old, dirty--parking lots have lots of trash blowing around
traffic because of growth of town is the pits--but it was pretty bad before new construction started--
My son who works in Dallas and commutes from Bedford would love to move back to Denton where many of his friends live even though it would add another 30 min to his commute
I am originally from Ohio (Dayton) and currently live in Chicago. However, I have been to Dallas many times and so I know the area very well and how it compares to Columbus.
First, both Dallas and Ft Worth are bigger than Columbus, population wise. But they really look something like Columbus; for both Dallas and ft worth, there is a large downtown area with skyscrapers, etc, some interesting nice urban neighborhoods with young people (sort of like High Street in Columbus) and then the rest of the city has neighborhoods to cater to all economic levels...i.e. there is a "good side" of town and also a side of town for wealthy people. The interesting is that in DFW, you are getting "two cities for the price of one". You get Dallas and then you also get FW right next door, each with its own downtown and "scene". Then you also get all of the suburbs. It is a very simillar lay out, to the columbus area. The area is mostly flat, like Columbus. There are not as many trees in the area, but you do get some nicer trees in the area...you do get oak trees etc, but also some palm trees, magnolias, etc. Some neighborhoods in the area are being made up to look something like LA, or Miami.
The weather is obviously warmer in DFW; you get a very long summer (about 7 months long...April thru Dec 31) and in July/August temperatures can sometimes get above 100 for days at a time. The winters are better than Ohio's; the winter runs from Nov 1 thru march 30 and to me, the entire winter is something similar to Ohio's "Halloween weather"...some days are sunny, some days are cloudy...some days can have cooler temps (highs in the 40's or 50's) and some days can get into the mid-70's.
The people in Dallas are generally very polite, warm, and 'welcoming'...there is a very upbeat optimism in the area...whereas people in Ohio, to me, alsways come accross as pessimistic, over-competitive and mean spirited.
As far as Denton goes, I have not been to that part of DFW but I understand it to be a fun college town with a lot of younger people.
Bottom line: as long as you can take the heat in the summer time there, I would imagine you will enjoy living there.
loves2read: Just to clarify, I will be a postdoc, not a grad student. Essentially this is a temporary faculty position where I don't have to teach much (just 1 class a semester) and I focus primarily on my research. So I already have my Ph.D. and this is sort of a step on the way to a tenure track position at some other place. Some junior faculty members already have families and tons of kids, but that's not really where I am in life now so in certain ways I'm more like a grad student but won't have a student ID (unless they accept my old OSU student ID ).
I am wondering about the crime, though. I have felt relatively safe at OSU walking around campus at night. I also tend to be very nocturnal and will likely be around pretty late at night. Not sure if it makes a difference but I'm a 6 foot tall 230 pound male powerlifter. At least around here I don't feel like a target, but I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going into really bad parts of Columbus alone.
SmartGXL: Thanks for the comparison! It's funny because people I know from other places like New England tend to think that Columbus is extremely friendly. So it would be nice if the area is even better like that. Honestly, I'm kind of scared of the summers. I have two skin colors: pale as a ghost and red&peeling. Sunlight also saps my energy. I'm very good at handling cold (although I don't particularly like it), but my whole family pretty much moves at half speed when it's too warm and sunny. One of the perks of my job is a generous travel allowance so I am planning on visiting colleagues at other universities over the summer, but that will still leave a lot of time I have to be in the heat. Is there anything you know of that people like me have done to get used to the change in weather?
loves2read: Just to clarify, I will be a postdoc, not a grad student. Essentially this is a temporary faculty position where I don't have to teach much (just 1 class a semester) and I focus primarily on my research. So I already have my Ph.D. and this is sort of a step on the way to a tenure track position at some other place. Some junior faculty members already have families and tons of kids, but that's not really where I am in life now so in certain ways I'm more like a grad student but won't have a student ID (unless they accept my old OSU student ID ).
I am wondering about the crime, though. I have felt relatively safe at OSU walking around campus at night. I also tend to be very nocturnal and will likely be around pretty late at night. Not sure if it makes a difference but I'm a 6 foot tall 230 pound male powerlifter. At least around here I don't feel like a target, but I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going into really bad parts of Columbus alone.
SmartGXL: Thanks for the comparison! It's funny because people I know from other places like New England tend to think that Columbus is extremely friendly. So it would be nice if the area is even better like that. Honestly, I'm kind of scared of the summers. I have two skin colors: pale as a ghost and red&peeling. Sunlight also saps my energy. I'm very good at handling cold (although I don't particularly like it), but my whole family pretty much moves at half speed when it's too warm and sunny. One of the perks of my job is a generous travel allowance so I am planning on visiting colleagues at other universities over the summer, but that will still leave a lot of time I have to be in the heat. Is there anything you know of that people like me have done to get used to the change in weather?
It stinks. When I lived in Chicago and Minneapolis, I looked forward to the Summer. Here I dread June because it means July is right ahead. We look forward to September because it starts cooling off a bit. But that's why God invented air conditioning! And I've heard often that "you don't have to shovel heat".
loves2read: Just to clarify, I will be a postdoc, not a grad student. Essentially this is a temporary faculty position where I don't have to teach much (just 1 class a semester) and I focus primarily on my research. So I already have my Ph.D. and this is sort of a step on the way to a tenure track position at some other place. Some junior faculty members already have families and tons of kids, but that's not really where I am in life now so in certain ways I'm more like a grad student but won't have a student ID (unless they accept my old OSU student ID ).
I am wondering about the crime, though. I have felt relatively safe at OSU walking around campus at night. I also tend to be very nocturnal and will likely be around pretty late at night. Not sure if it makes a difference but I'm a 6 foot tall 230 pound male powerlifter. At least around here I don't feel like a target, but I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going into really bad parts of Columbus alone.
SmartGXL: Thanks for the comparison! It's funny because people I know from other places like New England tend to think that Columbus is extremely friendly. So it would be nice if the area is even better like that. Honestly, I'm kind of scared of the summers. I have two skin colors: pale as a ghost and red&peeling. Sunlight also saps my energy. I'm very good at handling cold (although I don't particularly like it), but my whole family pretty much moves at half speed when it's too warm and sunny. One of the perks of my job is a generous travel allowance so I am planning on visiting colleagues at other universities over the summer, but that will still leave a lot of time I have to be in the heat. Is there anything you know of that people like me have done to get used to the change in weather?
The best way to handle the heat is to drink plenty of WATER. It allows your body to adapt to the heat, or so I have heard.
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