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Old 06-01-2018, 01:03 PM
 
860 posts, read 561,013 times
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Originally Posted by UnfairPark View Post
These are very few exceptions, most good medical schools doesn't offer accelerated programs. This is the reason often they reject so many solid and dedicated pre-Med trackers but sometimes take humanities degree and no degree applicants because they want intellectual diversity as much as they want racial, financial and geographical diversity. Everyone shouldn't be looking at things with a 2+2=4 attitude but they need others who can do 1+3 or 1.8+2.2 etc because they can open up new paths in medicine.

They don't reject pre-med trackers for humanities degrees in the name of "diversity" - they admit them if they are better qualified applicants. Humanities grads still take the MCAT and they still take the full slate of prerequisite pre-med classes (and then some, usually). I say this as someone who attended a small liberal arts school where 20%+ of the graduating class applies to (and gets accepted to) med school and the closest major we have to pre-med is called a BS in Biology.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:47 PM
 
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I don't think top-tier universities have an undergraduate major of "Pre-med." There may be an overlay program of pre-med in terms of advising, etc, but you need to major in an academic discipline.
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:20 PM
 
2,477 posts, read 1,492,077 times
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Originally Posted by numbersguy100 View Post
They don't reject pre-med trackers for humanities degrees in the name of "diversity" - they admit them if they are better qualified applicants. Humanities grads still take the MCAT and they still take the full slate of prerequisite pre-med classes (and then some, usually).
I said the same thing but probably my ESL wording made it complex.
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:21 PM
 
2,477 posts, read 1,492,077 times
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Originally Posted by cordata View Post
I don't think top-tier universities have an undergraduate major of "Pre-med." There may be an overlay program of pre-med in terms of advising, etc, but you need to major in an academic discipline.
No. Pre-med is a track, not a major.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:24 PM
 
7,290 posts, read 8,123,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordata View Post
I don't think top-tier universities have an undergraduate major of "Pre-med." There may be an overlay program of pre-med in terms of advising, etc, but you need to major in an academic discipline.
Right. Pre-med per se is very unusual. When my son was looking the only one I recall was Georgetown.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:41 PM
 
7,290 posts, read 8,123,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numbersguy100 View Post
They don't reject pre-med trackers for humanities degrees in the name of "diversity" - they admit them if they are better qualified applicants. Humanities grads still take the MCAT and they still take the full slate of prerequisite pre-med classes (and then some, usually). I say this as someone who attended a small liberal arts school where 20%+ of the graduating class applies to (and gets accepted to) med school and the closest major we have to pre-med is called a BS in Biology.
For the win.

1). The notion from several years ago that studying English/Humanities/soft sciences offered a preferred track into medical school was A). never really correct B). is less correct now than in the past. The swing if there is one is back toward hardcore science majors Or......the few kids who study say a humanities rich major and then go to school for an extra number of hours and ace all the medical school required pre-reqs. Obviously, these are all kids who would have hammered say BS. Bio or bio-chem etc as majors.

I know from just watching my daughter go through this over the last several months.
1). UTSW's 2017 class is ~85% hard science/STEM majors. Most of the balance have nursing, military, EMS or other experience and pre-requisites.
2). BCOM - similar.
3). Washington U. St. Louis - similar.

My daughter was tracking to an EE and had a solid MCAT score under her belt and thought Baylor or UTSW would take her with that...................negative. UTSW said apply again next year. BCOM said sure we'll accept you for '19 if you finish 27 more hours.......nearly all bio., O-Chem etc.

FWIIW BS Bio. is the most common UG degree for medical school by far.
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:01 PM
 
7,290 posts, read 8,123,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfairPark View Post
These are very few exceptions, most good medical schools doesn't offer accelerated programs. This is the reason often they reject so many solid and dedicated pre-Med trackers but sometimes take humanities degree and no degree applicants because they want intellectual diversity as much as they want racial, financial and geographical diversity. Everyone shouldn't be looking at things with a 2+2=4 attitude but they need others who can do 1+3 or 1.8+2.2 etc because they can open up new paths in medicine.
I know you don't want to hear it but more or less all medical schools will accept one form of fast track kids or another.
1). I mentioned Baylor, Harvard, Wash U., UTSW, Duke, Brown etc. I"ll look tonight but I know for a fact that most medical schools will indeed take people without degrees. There's no real largesse involved in that. Kids who hammer the MCAT and make A's in all the hard science pre-reqs for medical school are unusual people. So far as I can tell no medical school give preference to soft science/humanities types. The numbers say the opposite.

2). Everyone should be looking for the correct answer not the one that makes people feel good.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,548 posts, read 2,293,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
For the win.

1). The notion from several years ago that studying English/Humanities/soft sciences offered a preferred track into medical school was A). never really correct B). is less correct now than in the past. The swing if there is one is back toward hardcore science majors Or......the few kids who study say a humanities rich major and then go to school for an extra number of hours and ace all the medical school required pre-reqs. Obviously, these are all kids who would have hammered say BS. Bio or bio-chem etc as majors.

I know from just watching my daughter go through this over the last several months.
1). UTSW's 2017 class is ~85% hard science/STEM majors. Most of the balance have nursing, military, EMS or other experience and pre-requisites.
2). BCOM - similar.
3). Washington U. St. Louis - similar.

My daughter was tracking to an EE and had a solid MCAT score under her belt and thought Baylor or UTSW would take her with that...................negative. UTSW said apply again next year. BCOM said sure we'll accept you for '19 if you finish 27 more hours.......nearly all bio., O-Chem etc.

FWIIW BS Bio. is the most common UG degree for medical school by far.
I won’t dispute what you just said on BS Bio being the most common and even most common sense undergrad degree for medical school. It certainly makes perfect sense. However, I would add one caveat. From my admittedly limited world of reference, most people who go premed generally speaking have no other interest in the Biology field outside of med school ie they are not interested in pursuing a masters/PhD in Biology. Combine that with the high washout rates, you end up with people with pre med Bio degrees that are essentially useless. I know a couple of people who went the premed bio route but were unable to get into med school and are now stuck. One is now looking to start over in nursing school.

The smarter choice would be to major in a backup career choice major and take the premed requirements on top. It will take longer and yes everyone thinks they are going to be part of the 10% of freshmen who get into med school. But that’s not reality.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:32 AM
 
7,290 posts, read 8,123,957 times
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Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I wonít dispute what you just said on BS Bio being the most common and even most common sense undergrad degree for medical school. It certainly makes perfect sense. However, I would add one caveat. From my admittedly limited world of reference, most people who go premed generally speaking have no other interest in the Biology field outside of med school ie they are not interested in pursuing a masters/PhD in Biology. Combine that with the high washout rates, you end up with people with pre med Bio degrees that are essentially useless. I know a couple of people who went the premed bio route but were unable to get into med school and are now stuck. One is now looking to start over in nursing school.

The smarter choice would be to major in a backup career choice major and take the premed requirements on top. It will take longer and yes everyone thinks they are going to be part of the 10% of freshmen who get into med school. But thatís not reality.
That's a good post. I'd bet a good number of Ph.D biology types have bio. undergraduate degrees tho.

The way it worked at Baylor during my son's UG years seemed logical, even refined to me. It's way too much to explain in detail and I'd botch some of it......but profs, advisors, and department heads work to ween down the number of kids who aspire to become docs. starting even before the first day of class. The school sends out all kinds fo daunting stats like X number of freshmen want to become doctors X/20 actually will become doctors. If a kid's grades aren't good enough at the beginning of JR. year they are advised to get out and that continues until graduation.

A BS-bio kid with solid bonafides but who does not win a spot in medical school has a lot of options. Ph.D nursing, nurse-practitioner, PA, hard research, teaching, pharma sales etc. but most of those imply years more schooling. That said your point is a good one a BS in Bio. short of one of the above is not a great degree to have.

IMO for hard chargers who show good odds for medical school BS Bio or BA bio or close are, numerically speaking the way to go.

For others, kid who aren't sure, kids who may not show good odds for medical school etc. another degree area makes perfect sense.

Finally, my daughter really wanted to become and engineer. JR. year she said indicated she might want to attend medical school. In her case the best option was to finish engineering school - while going through the medical school app. process. In her case going a circuitous route will cost her a year.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,548 posts, read 2,293,059 times
Reputation: 2346
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That's a good post. I'd bet a good number of Ph.D biology types have bio. undergraduate degrees tho.

The way it worked at Baylor during my son's UG years seemed logical, even refined to me. It's way too much to explain in detail and I'd botch some of it......but profs, advisors, and department heads work to ween down the number of kids who aspire to become docs. starting even before the first day of class. The school sends out all kinds fo daunting stats like X number of freshmen want to become doctors X/20 actually will become doctors. If a kid's grades aren't good enough at the beginning of JR. year they are advised to get out and that continues until graduation.

A BS-bio kid with solid bonafides but who does not win a spot in medical school has a lot of options. Ph.D nursing, nurse-practitioner, PA, hard research, teaching, pharma sales etc. but most of those imply years more schooling. That said your point is a good one a BS in Bio. short of one of the above is not a great degree to have.

IMO for hard chargers who show good odds for medical school BS Bio or BA bio or close are, numerically speaking the way to go.

For others, kid who aren't sure, kids who may not show good odds for medical school etc. another degree area makes perfect sense.

Finally, my daughter really wanted to become and engineer. JR. year she said indicated she might want to attend medical school. In her case the best option was to finish engineering school - while going through the medical school app. process. In her case going a circuitous route will cost her a year.
Yep your daughter hedged her bets perfectly. Completing the premed requirements while still having a very viable fall back option in case med school doesn’t work out. Kudos to her as that is difficult to pull off.

Agreed that on PA, Pharmacy and PT school being excellent alternatives to med school. Totally forgot about those. Only correction I would add is that nursing would be a no go. A popular misconception is that nursing and premed are similar enough to where one could easily switch back and forth between the two. Not the case. My wife’s cousin was premed and went on to complete one semester of PT school before realizing that it wasn’t for her. To become a nurse the only quick option she had was to sign up for an almost 2 year program at TCU that is geared towards people in that situation. Most of her premed Biology credits didn’t help her with nursing credits. Also you cannot get into NP school without a few years of nursing experience.
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