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Old 03-27-2012, 03:48 PM
 
933 posts, read 623,534 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Sure they could. I think you're missing the point about co-ed vs. single-sex. That factor right there reduces the potential pool of applicants by 50%.

Now, if you have the same group of "usual suspects" applying to Greenhill/St. Mark's and Greenhill/Hockaday, respectively, that's going to produce 2x the applicants for Greenhill, compared to the other two. Unless Greenhill has 2x the spots (and, in general, it doesn't), that would, indeed, make Greenhill more competitive than St. Mark's/Hockaday.

---

As another poster commented, the yield rate is something completely different.

First, you are making the assumption that all applicants apply to the same school. There are plenty of people that only apply to Hockaday/St Marks and not both schools. For example, there are plenty of park cities parents who will drive down preston 3 miles to drop their son off at St. Marks, but they are not going halfway across the city to drop their son off at Greenhill. Thus, if he gets into St. Marks- great. If he does not- public school here we come! The same holds true for Plano parents.

Second, you might consider acceptance rates. Greenhill is 25%, Hockaday is 21% and St. Marks is 20%. (per various websites, including Greenhill's published information).

Third, you might consider the test scores necessary to gain admittance. I don't have objective numbers, but based on personal experience, the cut off rate is higher at St Marks/Hockaday than Greenhill.

Finally, your number of open spots analogy is flawed. Under your example, it is easier to get into UT (because they admit 10k-15k new students every year) than Texas State (smaller class size).

Under your example you would expect that Greenhill's acceptance rate would be half that of St. Marks and Hockaday, however, that is not the case. Greenhill has to admit more students because it knows if students are accepted to both schools, Greenhill is likely the second choice.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:12 PM
 
64 posts, read 108,195 times
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From an outsider's point of view (i.e., not from Texas) and having looked at and applied to these schools with somewhat of an objective eye, I actually don't think there's a big difference among these schools. I sense that St. Marks and Hockaday have more cache/prestige but in terms of academics, I'm not sure if there is a clear cut winner, esp at the lower school level. I also think Hockaday places more importance (all other things being equal) on family name and big money. It seems to be where old Texas money families send their kids. They seem to have a lot of famous last names. I mean, is it really the case that the Bushes, the Fords and the Cubans all have such superior DNA that their kids all go/went to Hockaday? I'm pretty confident that they will take an abysmally low scoring Bush over a high scoring Smith any day of the week, especially when the kids are four years old.

And, honestly, admission rates in the low 20s is not competitive at all in the whole scheme of things. That's practically a walk in compared to acceptance rates for preschool/kindergarten in other parts of the country. All I'm saying is that I don't understand why people take all of this so personally. The top students from any of these schools will do fine in life. No need to belabor the point about whether the 25% acceptance rate at Greenhill makes it a less competitive school than the 21% at Hockaday. Who cares. Besides, to really have any value, I think they need to separate out the test scores/acceptance rates for the high school.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:49 PM
 
8,050 posts, read 10,526,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockDad View Post
First, you are making the assumption that all applicants apply to the same school. There are plenty of people that only apply to Hockaday/St Marks and not both schools. For example, there are plenty of park cities parents who will drive down preston 3 miles to drop their son off at St. Marks, but they are not going halfway across the city to drop their son off at Greenhill. Thus, if he gets into St. Marks- great. If he does not- public school here we come! The same holds true for Plano parents.
Again, agreed. I would NEVER send a kid to Greenhill because I don't agree with their worldview/philosophy on education. I would also never apply to ESD for other reasons. If we do private with eventual kiddos, 1st choice would be Hockaday/St Mark's and then Catholic schools or a classical education school like Providence would be second choice(s).

Plus, Greenhill is SOOOO far out there!!
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:10 PM
 
343 posts, read 366,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Again, agreed. I would NEVER send a kid to Greenhill because I don't agree with their worldview/philosophy on education. I would also never apply to ESD for other reasons. If we do private with eventual kiddos, 1st choice would be Hockaday/St Mark's and then Catholic schools or a classical education school like Providence would be second choice(s).

Plus, Greenhill is SOOOO far out there!!
I find this post a little insulting. Of course everyone is entitled to opinion but I know both communities very well and there is VERY little difference in the "worldview/philosophy" of education in these two schools. Yes, Greenhill is more liberal, but obviously your views are severely outdated to imply that there is such a drastic change between the schools.

I am (gasp) a St. Marks grad and we did push for my oldest son to go there when he graduated Lamplighter and got accepted to both because I knew it well. However, he preferred the environment at Greenhill and so we went there. I could NOT be more happy with our choice, the school offers very high caliber academics and fosters so much individuality. My oldest, recently graduated, got into a very, very good college (the same type of school that a typical SM/Hockaday student would aim for) and we never looked back.

Hockaday and St. Marks have a lot of old money that gives them the prestige and name that Dallasites hold onto so dearly. But you have to remember that richer is not always better. Students thrive in both environments and sometimes more so in one than the other. I love both schools, donate to both schools, and know many people from both schools, but Greenhill gets an unfairly bad rep sometimes because it hasn't fully cemented itself in Dallas' old money community.

Not sure where Hockdad got his info, but I know acceptance rates for just the upper school at Greenhill have fallen below 20% this year (and I am sure the case is the same for SM/Hock). SURE there are nuances between the scores, and YES St. Marks and Hockaday often edge out Greenhill in some aspects, but you must remember these are the 3 best schools in the area and if your kid has the talent, they will succeed in either place and should not be focused on marginal differences in test scores, etc, you just pick what is right for you

Also Greenhill is NOT that far out there. I live south of loop 12 and its a straight shot up the tollway and I can make it in 10-15 mins. You must remember that Greenhill is less than 3 miles north of Hockaday
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:52 PM
 
8,050 posts, read 10,526,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakold23 View Post
I find this post a little insulting.
I'm sorry that you do, but you really shouldn't, since as you said.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakold23 View Post
you just pick what is right for you

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakold23 View Post
Also Greenhill is NOT that far out there. I live south of loop 12 and its a straight shot up the tollway and I can make it in 10-15 mins. You must remember that Greenhill is less than 3 miles north of Hockaday
"Less than 3 miles" would double the drive time for me. I agrew with HockDad's comment that St Mark's (moreso than Hockaday) feels "right up the road" from the Park Cities and Greenhill is quite a bit further. Again, YMMV, but that's my opinion.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:37 PM
 
343 posts, read 366,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
I'm sorry that you do, but you really shouldn't, since as you said.....





"Less than 3 miles" would double the drive time for me. I agrew with HockDad's comment that St Mark's (moreso than Hockaday) feels "right up the road" from the Park Cities and Greenhill is quite a bit further. Again, YMMV, but that's my opinion.
Yeah I know I definitely sounded a little hypocritical there. What I meant was, of course you can prefer one to the other but what rubbed me the wrong way was you saying there was such a different world view from Greenhill as opposed to SM/Hock. But it doesnt really matter

I do agree with your comments though, St. Marks does feel like the most "local" of the private schools and has the best location in the North Dallas community. Although I don't think Greenhill is that far, it is certainly a bit more of a drive
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:50 PM
 
13 posts, read 58,739 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Again, agreed. I would NEVER send a kid to Greenhill because I don't agree with their worldview/philosophy on education. I would also never apply to ESD for other reasons. If we do private with eventual kiddos, 1st choice would be Hockaday/St Mark's and then Catholic schools or a classical education school like Providence would be second choice(s).

Plus, Greenhill is SOOOO far out there!!
What is Greenhill's worldview/philosophy on education? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:10 PM
 
933 posts, read 623,534 times
Reputation: 828
[quote=Vacation101;23596807]From an outsider's point of view (i.e., not from Texas) and having looked at and applied to these schools with somewhat of an objective eye, I actually don't think there's a big difference among these schools. I sense that St. Marks and Hockaday have more cache/prestige but in terms of academics, I'm not sure if there is a clear cut

St marks has 25 percent nmsf
Hockaday has 19 percent nmsf
Greenhill has 10 percent nmsf

As the great philosopher Charlie Sheen said, st marks is "wiiiiiiining"

There is a difference.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:21 PM
 
343 posts, read 366,324 times
Reputation: 206
[quote=HockDad;23599129]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacation101 View Post
From an outsider's point of view (i.e., not from Texas) and having looked at and applied to these schools with somewhat of an objective eye, I actually don't think there's a big difference among these schools. I sense that St. Marks and Hockaday have more cache/prestige but in terms of academics, I'm not sure if there is a clear cut

St marks has 25 percent nmsf
Hockaday has 19 percent nmsf
Greenhill has 10 percent nmsf

As the great philosopher Charlie Sheen said, st marks is "wiiiiiiining"

There is a difference.
love the quote, yes SM NMSF numbers are always outstanding. Greenhill has been working hard to start churning out a higher percentage
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:14 PM
 
13 posts, read 58,739 times
Reputation: 20
come on. who cares about nmsf numbers. it's based in large part on psat/sat scores! a not very difficult standardized test at that. top kids at the top private schools, with the resources that they have, really should be getting no lower than 2300 on the SATs. i would never judge the quality of a school by reference to scores on a standardized test. that's depressing. really depressing.
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