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Old 03-28-2012, 02:58 PM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
Well, if you say "unimpressed," it sounds so negative... I'm not impressed or unimpressed. I think the top schools are relatively, again relatively, easier to get into in Dallas (acceptance rates above 20%) and I think the schools provide a fine education. Someone on this board said that many graduates of the top Dallas schools choose to go to colleges in the South rather than head to the coasts. So I get that the Ivy stats will be different. I just took issue with the comment that NMSF numbers are somehow dispositive on the question of what makes a school good.

I'm starting to think I should look at schools that have a higher proportion of people with origins outside of Texas. I think I may be ostracized...
Are you really making the case that acceptances/applications is a better metric than NMSF? You can't be serious.

One can be tinkered with easily the other cannot. For an example the top Catholic schools around here go to great pains to ensure that most long shot kids don't apply.

Honestly, I think you should step back and think about all this. For but one factor the top Eastern Preps are flier schools for many. Think of all of the long shot applications completed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:14 PM
 
100 posts, read 346,858 times
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It may indeed be a "big fish, small pond type of discussion". But if this is the pond you're in, they are two of the biggest fish. Good luck with your decision. Please keep us posted on which one you choose and why.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:44 PM
 
13 posts, read 139,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Are you really making the case that acceptances/applications is a better metric than NMSF? You can't be serious.

One can be tinkered with easily the other cannot. For an example the top Catholic schools around here go to great pains to ensure that most long shot kids don't apply.

Honestly, I think you should step back and think about all this. For but one factor the top Eastern Preps are flier schools for many. Think of all of the long shot applications completed.
See prior posts. Not saying that at all. Competitiveness in terms of admissions has very little bearing on a school's reputation. My view is that college matriculation stats are a better gauge of academic reputation than NMSF numbers. And again, I really wasn't talking about boarding schools.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:51 AM
 
1,212 posts, read 1,769,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
See prior posts. Not saying that at all. Competitiveness in terms of admissions has very little bearing on a school's reputation. My view is that college matriculation stats are a better gauge of academic reputation than NMSF numbers. And again, I really wasn't talking about boarding schools.
Applerocks, I fiind your comments extremely interesting. First you post a pretty simple question- which school is better academically- Hockaday or Greenhill. From there you go on to post numerous comments that neither school is as good as the schools on the east coast. When someone posts objective data- like St. Marks has 25% of its class as NMSF (Hockaday at 20%) you scoff that anyone should consider such information when considering a school. (that percentage is comparable to the top east coast schools)

Your last posts says that you should consider college matriculation. Thus, I pulled the records to make sure I quoted the correct facts. Lets look at the numbers. In 2010, Hockaday had 44 girls go to top 25 schools (approximately 100 girls in the class). Top 25 schools do not include the following schools (where students went): William and Mary (2), Amherst, Washington & Lee, Art Institute of Chicago, Boston University (2), Claremont, UNC (2), Wellesley, Trinity (2). In addition, five girls attended colleges outside the United States: Oxford, St. Andrews, and Webster (Vienna). Only 18% stayed in Texas.

I could point out that Hockaday has the largest/one of the largest endowments of any girls school in the country (140 million). I could reference that it has an amazing set of alumni and parent support. None of these facts are going to impress you. (St. Marks has even more impressive stats).

All three schools are great schools and any family should be proud that their children were accepted. I hope you find happiness at whichever school you choose.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:39 AM
 
13 posts, read 139,720 times
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There's a website that compiles all this information for lazy people like myself. Hockaday has 44.6% at what they define as "top schools" and St. Marks has 52.3%. By comparison, Brearley (top all girls in NYC) has 73.5%, Chapin (another all girls in NYC) has 68.9% and Collegiate (all boys in NYC) has 66.5%. Because the owner of the site is focused mostly on NYC, the list of schools that are not in NYC is not very comprehensive. Greenhill is not on there for example and no one is interested enough to ask him to put it on there.

The top boarding schools are in the mid 50s to low 60s.

Take from that what you will.

And, yes, I am not surprised that Hockaday has such a huge endowment. There are a lot of rich people who send their kids there. I'm sure you'll counter with the "it's all based on merit" argument but come on. Bush's kids were so smart? Ford's kids/grandkids? Mark Cuban's kids? Right. Merit based.

I don't dispute that there are probably very very smart kids at Hockaday since, judging by your ID that is where your kids go, but I do think Hockaday is more attracted (for lack of a better word) to old money and establishment ties. That's fine. All schools need money. Just don't pretend that it's a level playing field. It's not.

Agree that all three schools are fine schools, just as Cistercian, Ursuline, ESD, etc. are fine schools. The differences among the top handful of schools in Dallas are much less significant than the gap between the top school in Dallas (Hockaday according to you and many others) and the top schools in NYC. So all this niggling over NMSF numbers and acceptance rates and whatnot over whether Hockaday, St. Marks or Greenhill is superior is just kinda dumb.

I really don't care where we end up. We might just go public and save the $$. We won't be here long enough to matter. I'm pretty confident that we probably will feel out of place wherever we end up. Sorry I started this discussion, which as originally intended, was not really designed to inquire about the kinds of things we ended up discussing.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:59 AM
 
1,212 posts, read 1,769,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
There's a website that compiles all this information for lazy people like myself. Hockaday has 44.6% at what they define as "top schools" and St. Marks has 52.3%. By comparison, Brearley (top all girls in NYC) has 73.5%, Chapin (another all girls in NYC) has 68.9% and Collegiate (all boys in NYC) has 66.5%. Because the owner of the site is focused mostly on NYC, the list of schools that are not in NYC is not very comprehensive. Greenhill is not on there for example and no one is interested enough to ask him to put it on there.

The top boarding schools are in the mid 50s to low 60s.

Take from that what you will.

And, yes, I am not surprised that Hockaday has such a huge endowment. There are a lot of rich people who send their kids there. I'm sure you'll counter with the "it's all based on merit" argument but come on. Bush's kids were so smart? Ford's kids/grandkids? Mark Cuban's kids? Right. Merit based.

I don't dispute that there are probably very very smart kids at Hockaday since, judging by your ID that is where your kids go, but I do think Hockaday is more attracted (for lack of a better word) to old money and establishment ties. That's fine. All schools need money. Just don't pretend that it's a level playing field. It's not.

Agree that all three schools are fine schools, just as Cistercian, Ursuline, ESD, etc. are fine schools. The differences among the top handful of schools in Dallas are much less significant than the gap between the top school in Dallas (Hockaday according to you and many others) and the top schools in NYC. So all this niggling over NMSF numbers and acceptance rates and whatnot over whether Hockaday, St. Marks or Greenhill is superior is just kinda dumb.

I really don't care where we end up. We might just go public and save the $$. We won't be here long enough to matter. I'm pretty confident that we probably will feel out of place wherever we end up. Sorry I started this discussion, which as originally intended, was not really designed to inquire about the kinds of things we ended up discussing.
Just a couple of points. First, I hope you find the right school. I also hope you find yourself happy in Texas. The people are generally friendly, the business community is large and diverse, and it is a great place to raise your family.

I also agree that Hockaday's numbers are not as high as the elite schools on the east coast. However, I am not sure that it aims to have the highest numbers. I am not going to kid anyone by saying that all admission is merit based. It certainly is not. They favor alumni, minorities, and siblings. If it truly was aiming for the highest possible "scores", it would not allow a slighly less qualified sibling into the school. Certainly some of the alumni's kids would have been left off the list.

As for favoring the rich, that is always interesting. First, neither Cuban or Ford are old money. (According to Wkipedia, Ford's dad was a mechanic). However, just because you are rich and old money Dallas does not mean that you are getting in. I have a very close friend who had a daughter rejected. His family is worth 100 million plus and is considered one of the more generous families in Dallas (names on lots of buidlings, junior league wife, member of DCC, etc.). His daughter went to ESD. Does it help to be rich- absolutely. They are always looking for families that can make large contributions. If your kid is borderline and you are on the Forbes 400, you are probably getting in. But if your kid clearly does not belong, you are likely not getting in, no matter your last name.

Once again, I hope you like Texas and I hope you find a great school for your daughter.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:43 AM
 
272 posts, read 712,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
I'm pretty confident that we probably will feel out of place wherever we end up. Sorry I started this discussion, which as originally intended, was not really designed to inquire about the kinds of things we ended up discussing.
I think that post #3 on this thread caused it to diverge from the matters you originally asked about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
I'm not trying to be provocative but is it really like comparing Harvard and Stanford or more like Northwestern and UChicago? Nationally, neither school seems to be well recognized and Ivy admissions rates seem rather low compared to the top prep schools in the nation. I understand that St Marks and Hockaday are tops in Dallas but I don't understand exactly why.
Hope that you find a school in Dallas that feels like a fit during the brief time you plan to be here. (And for future reference the Texas equivalent of "I'm not trying to be provocative" is "Bless their hearts!" -- you have license to say whatever you wish after prefacing a statement with that phrase.)
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:48 PM
 
13 posts, read 139,720 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMS_Parent View Post
I think that post #3 on this thread caused it to diverge from the matters you originally asked about:



Hope that you find a school in Dallas that feels like a fit during the brief time you plan to be here. (And for future reference the Texas equivalent of "I'm not trying to be provocative" is "Bless their hearts!" -- you have license to say whatever you wish after prefacing a statement with that phrase.)
Okay, you made me laugh. That was really funny. I've been wondering about the correct usage of that phrase because I have actually heard it quite a bit during my sporadic trips out there. Thanks for making me laugh out loud!
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:29 AM
 
42 posts, read 112,971 times
Reputation: 65
My daughter applied at Greenhill. I am sure she would have gotten in as she had straight A's elsewhere and her ISEE scores were 9, 9, 8, and 7. However, then she shadowed a student. She saw so much bullying going on that even after having paid the application fee and doing all the work, we pulled her application before we even got an admission decision. Maybe she would not have been admitted. Who knows. But the point is, she did NOT want to go there once she shadowed and saw how the kids treated each other on campus. The bullying was worse than she ever saw in the public schools. We moved on. It was too bad too. We picked Greenhill for what seemed like excellent academics. My daughter needed a program where she could take advanced math and sciences, beyond what the other schools tend to offer. Oh, I forgot about the extensive discussions of a drug party where Greenhill students had partied with Parish Episcopal students over the weekend and some kids were arrested. The students seemed rather thrilled and excited about the whole thing. They seemed quite accustomed to the idea of doing drugs on the weekends and being at parties like that.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:30 AM
 
42 posts, read 112,971 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by applerocks View Post
Okay, you made me laugh. That was really funny. I've been wondering about the correct usage of that phrase because I have actually heard it quite a bit during my sporadic trips out there. Thanks for making me laugh out loud!
Ha ha! That is true! You can say whatever you want around here if you just end it with "bless her heart" or "bless their hearts."
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