U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-10-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
As this is proving these issues can be very difficult.
Very true!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-10-2012, 10:28 AM
 
43 posts, read 23,754 times
Reputation: 43
The noise is constant. I tried a Tripp Lite ground loop isolator/power conditioner. I tried lifting the ground.The electricians who checked my home were working with some advice from the consultant I mentioned. They checked for things like borrowed neutrals where a "hot" wire wasn't balanced by a corresponding neutral, bootlegged grounds, shorts, etc.. It would seem that the fact the problem is with me when the power is killed and a battery source is used that the home wiring can, at least, be put aside as not the primary cause. I agree with your comment on engineers. Some pull trains. the consultant I'm working with has a specific expertise as an engineer in the audio field. He's the chief engineer and president of a substantial audio related company. He writes articles fro utility trade magazines, lectures at trade organization conferences and has been a guest lecturer at MIT. He is going to come to Dallas as his schedule allows if I can't find a solution with local service companies or the utility company. He wants to use the case for his publications and lectures. I was hoping not to have to have him make the trip but I'm afraid it may come to that. I better get off to "rest of my life" for a few hours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
Interesting articles powerline noise detecting from the ARRL (HAM radio): http://www.arrl.org/power-line

Too much for non-experts or advanced HAMs but: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/PLN/Ultrasonic_Pinpointer.pdf And http://www.k7sfn.com/projects/ultrasound.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 10:35 AM
 
3,221 posts, read 2,375,608 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitplyr View Post
reply to EDS. We checked every outlet in the house with the tester you suggested and found no incorrectly wired plugs. We replaced every outlet in the home just to make certain we had good grip on the blades. We checked every switch and eliminated dimmer switches. We have no mailbox light. No problem found with a security system. We replaced the doorbell transformer. The tubes in the amp were pulled and tested by the most respected audio tech in Dallas. I swapped the tubes anyway with no change. I tried amps owned by others that work perfectly elsewhere at my house and they buzz. I'm a bit confused by the ONCOR engineers contention that a one amp charge in the ground is to be considered normal as well. I thought it may be coming from a loose neutral at an adjacent property. ONCOR killed the power at that property with no positive result. I've visited other neighbors but none have any signs of a loose neutral at their homes. The charge in my secondary ground varies with the power draw in the neighborhood. It is normally highest about the time everyone is getting ready for work, improves later in the morning and gets worse again in the evening. It's higher on the weekends. My Trifield meter that reads EMF levels will sometimes spike from 50 to 100 milligauss at locations near the ground wire during periods of high draw in the neighborhood. It also spikes between these readings in less than one second intervals when held 10 inches above the ground where my underground power feed passes under the yard on the west end of the home. The EMF readings or along the secondary ground during periods of high draw do not diminish if I kill the power to the home. It seems like the next thing I need do is prove that the problem is or isn't RF. It would have to be a powerful signal in close proximity to be causing this problem. Thanks very much for your input. I guess if bad becomes worse I can build a Farady cage in a room to play inside of. I'm sure my wife will love the look!!
Excellent Faraday reference BTW!

I'm going to try to ascertain precisely how to test for DC offset. Fluke has meters that sniff it out but they are seriously expensive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitplyr View Post
The noise is constant. I tried a Tripp Lite ground loop isolator/power conditioner. I tried lifting the ground.The electricians who checked my home were working with some advice from the consultant I mentioned. They checked for things like borrowed neutrals where a "hot" wire wasn't balanced by a corresponding neutral, bootlegged grounds, shorts, etc.. It would seem that the fact the problem is with me when the power is killed and a battery source is used that the home wiring can, at least, be put aside as not the primary cause. I agree with your comment on engineers. Some pull trains. the consultant I'm working with has a specific expertise as an engineer in the audio field. He's the chief engineer and president of a substantial audio related company. He writes articles fro utility trade magazines, lectures at trade organization conferences and has been a guest lecturer at MIT. He is going to come to Dallas as his schedule allows if I can't find a solution with local service companies or the utility company. He wants to use the case for his publications and lectures. I was hoping not to have to have him make the trip but I'm afraid it may come to that. I better get off to "rest of my life" for a few hours.
Sounds like the electricians did a thorough job and check all the right things. It also sounds like you are learning the multiple tidbits that makeup all the numerous sources and complexity that surrounds such problems.

Good read: http://www.w8ji.com/power_line_noise.htm


Last edited by highcotton; 05-10-2012 at 10:46 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
I assume you have telephone poles carrying the transformers along with the primary and secondary voltages. My guess is that there is a problem with the high voltage (top line located above the pole-pig transformers) somewhere in your neighborhood. The top wires on the poles carry the primary (or higher voltage) for the 120/240 volt transformers. Any faults (cracked insulators, etc.) on the higher voltage lines can easily radiate (transmit) a signal up and down the entire length of the line until it deadends. The line (wire) acts as an antenna when radiating the signal. A fault on high voltage can have the humming or buzzing in receivers and audio equipment like it is on steriods (as you said).

How close is the nearest business, factory, hospital, etc.?

Can you determine where the top lines (high voltage) begins and deadends that services your house?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 04:07 PM
 
43 posts, read 23,754 times
Reputation: 43
First, an update. ONCOR has engaged a subcontractor to check the problems I hoped to be able to find with a HAM operator and his equipment. This company can scan for problems on the pole lines, sub surface lines, etc. They are in the neighborhood today and are going to be on my property tomorrow to check some things. I was impressed with the technician who called to tell me what they will be doing. I was also real relieved to find out he's a musician and knows amps and guitars. He seemed to have some immediate direction on what he would be looking for when I described the symptoms of the problem. There is no light or heavy industry in my immediate area. There is a strip mall north of me about five blocks that has an Albertsons, some dry cleaners, pizza parlor, etc. I'm north of Beltline and South of Arapaho off Hillcrest. The nearest hospital is at Coit and Forest. I'll update after this company completes their work tomorrow. If that doesn't solve it it will be time to bring in the engineer from California who works with studios. My wife was visiting some friend today who had gotten some pet chickens and had a city style fancy hen coup in the back yard. Maybe I can build a dual purpose Faraday cage after all!! Rockin with the roosters!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitplyr View Post
First, an update. ONCOR has engaged a subcontractor to check the problems I hoped to be able to find with a HAM operator and his equipment. This company can scan for problems on the pole lines, sub surface lines, etc. They are in the neighborhood today and are going to be on my property tomorrow to check some things. I was impressed with the technician who called to tell me what they will be doing. I was also real relieved to find out he's a musician and knows amps and guitars. He seemed to have some immediate direction on what he would be looking for when I described the symptoms of the problem. There is no light or heavy industry in my immediate area. There is a strip mall north of me about five blocks that has an Albertsons, some dry cleaners, pizza parlor, etc. I'm north of Beltline and South of Arapaho off Hillcrest. The nearest hospital is at Coit and Forest. I'll update after this company completes their work tomorrow. If that doesn't solve it it will be time to bring in the engineer from California who works with studios. My wife was visiting some friend today who had gotten some pet chickens and had a city style fancy hen coup in the back yard. Maybe I can build a dual purpose Faraday cage after all!! Rockin with the roosters!
Excellent! Hope they find the problem quickly. Please keep us informed...

Use a high quality mesh for your cage!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2012, 04:17 PM
 
43 posts, read 23,754 times
Reputation: 43
Here's the news...The most positive thing I have to report is I did successfully resist the neanderthal portion of my genetic make up and did not make a hole in any drywall with an engineer. The new guy on the team was a step forward. He was actually here to solve the problem. Unfortunately it has become even more mysterious. They claim their testing in the area showed no ONCOR equipment causing the problem and that is not RF in nature. It's 60 cycle.. They are going to do one more test next week where they completely disconnect me from the grid including the neutral connection. WE are then going to power the amps up with a battery and inverter. The results will then prove whether or not ONCOR is off the hook. They think it is traveling in on a water line, gas line or sewer line. It could be something as simple as a malfunctioning radio alarm clock at a neighbors house. They are not responsible for tracking down that potential source. If it is coming in on the water line, inserting a non-conductive length into the copper lines in will not solve the problem. It could be carried on the mineral content of the water itself. Breaking the gas line may work if it's traveling there. If it isn't coming in on one of those paths and not traveling on their neutral they have nothing else to say or do I will then find myself in a house where the laws of physics for some reason no longer apply. Something in my common sense says bull##** but I'll pass this all along to my better mind in California and see what he thinks. The Farady chicken coup won't work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,023 posts, read 3,223,046 times
Reputation: 3467
The source of interference can indeed be extremely mysterious and difficult to locate, but........

If the engineer confirmed that the interference was not just detectable in your house but in the entire neighborhood, then why remove your particular house from the grid? Does the engineer really think the source of the interference is at or in your house?

Someone needs a portable detector with a handheld yagi antenna...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top