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Old 06-23-2013, 12:54 AM
 
2,206 posts, read 4,727,588 times
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Actually, it is not a matter of opinion. Those districts have a LOOONG way to go.

Demographics are not the key ingredient.

The big three are expectations, peers, and curriculum.

Carroll, Prosper, Frisco, etc way under perform for their demographics and have for many years.

This means that the expectations, peers, and curriculum is just not there. Those districts are overwhelmingly white and middle class. The kids are smart but not highly educated and the SAT scores reflect that. At the upper rungs, NMSF and other indicators like the AMC tests, none of those schools show up at all. That means that high academic achievement is not the focus of the ISD nor the parents.

High achievement does not suddenly occur in the senior year. It begins in K and is built upon every year. Just like in sports. A kid with zero athletic training is not going to show up his senior year and be a starter on a 4A championship team. Nor will a smart kid show up and expect to compete with the Tier 1 districts.

The Tier 1 ISDS - HP, PISD, Coppell, and FM have a proven track record of performing WAY above all the other districts. That is a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW747 View Post
The sought after term is a matter of opinion to a certain extent.I think some people will agree with me and some people will not.Time will tell how growing districts like Prosper,Frisco and Love Joy will rank in the future.The demographic being there is a fact in all 3 suburbs.
Just like you said last year there would be no apartments in Prosper. LOL.

We have a responsibility on this site to give people advice based on facts.

I have read many posts on here where parents took the wrong advice and later moved. Like moving to lakewood for "top schools" or to lovejoy. Those parents have posted on here that they moved out to PISD or to another Tier 1 ISD.

Personally, I would think those posts would give people pause who still give the same advice that others found to be wrong and who wasted their $$, time, and lives finding out it was not true.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:32 AM
 
96 posts, read 193,660 times
Reputation: 77
1. If demographics were the only factor then East Plano, Coppell and Dallas magnets wouldn't be whooping behind of wealthy rival schools.

2. Not only these exurbs dont offer quality public education but they also make it logistically impossible to go to top tier private schools in Dallas because of their locations.

3. These are fine places if you don't need to commute or education is somewhere in the middle on your priority list and you need huge lots to raise horses and chickens but saying that schools are sought after is deception.

4. One advantage is that junior will get on football team without much competition.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:16 AM
 
19,545 posts, read 17,806,917 times
Reputation: 17061
Quote:
Originally Posted by DitsyD View Post
Plano IS a suburb.

Location also has to do with the schools within that location. West Plano would not demand the price simply because it is north of Dallas if it did not have the excellent schools. The homes around the Park Cities don't demand the same price, even though they are of an equivalent location, because they don't have the excellent schools, they have DISD.
That's a fair point but it isn't precisely accurate. HP/UP are better located, relative to DTD, than most of the better parts of North Dallas (Preston Hollow etc.). It's what, a one minute drive from south HP into Oaklawn or Uptown and maybe three/five into downtown.

To me the price premium in HP/UP comes down to several things that many people value highly:

1. Neiman Marcus quality city services
2. SMU
3. Cool shopping and dining options
4. Great location relative to DTD/Love Field/world class medical facilities
5. A city hall that has been generally well run for many decades
6. A culture of success and achievement
7. The schools are big part too
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:02 AM
 
1,315 posts, read 2,669,333 times
Reputation: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigger G View Post
1. If demographics were the only factor then East Plano, Coppell and Dallas magnets wouldn't be whooping behind of wealthy rival schools.

2. Not only these exurbs dont offer quality public education but they also make it logistically impossible to go to top tier private schools in Dallas because of their locations.

3. These are fine places if you don't need to commute or education is somewhere in the middle on your priority list and you need huge lots to raise horses and chickens but saying that schools are sought after is deception.

4. One advantage is that junior will get on football team without much competition.
This is a response that makes little sense.These exurbs don't offer quality public education? Seriously?

Junior will get on the football team without much competition? Allen has the best football program in the state,one of the top in the country.If tax payers wanted to pay for their state of the art,amazing stadium that is up to them.

Frisco ISD is the largest exemplary district in the state.Prosper,Alen,Frisco,Love Joy, might not be top,but they are all good districts.People are moving to these areas for good schools,safe family friendly neighborhoods and conveniences like shopping,amenities and entertainment.

Huge lots to raise horses? Don't need to commute?I am a professional working in the Plano area and have a 15 minute commute.I am surrounded by mass amounts of shopping and every amenity my family needs.Although my Town is in the process of adding retail,entertainment and dining options,if Prosper stayed a town with nothing added other than more houses I would be fine with that.I am so close already to mass amounts of shopping,entertainment and dining.

Are you aware that the city of Plano is close to 300,000 people? Denton ,Mc Kinney and Frisco are close to 150,000 people each and growing fast.Do you realize how many people commute to work in those areas? These are mega cities.Employment hubs,not just large bedroom communities.It takes me about a half hour to get to North Dallas.Would that be a long commute for me if I worked there? No.Posters that make it seem like Frisco,Prosper,Mc Kinney,Fairview and Allen are out in the middle of nowhere are conveying misleading information.Why are people moving to these areas in droves,where the average home price is not cheap,well over $300,000? Are all these upper income earners ok with their children not getting a quality education?I suggest people seeking information on City Data forum take a look at a map so they can see exactly what surounds the different areas in DFW.

Some posters knock down the northern suburbs far more than I specifically knock down Dallas and the inner ring areas on this forum.This is a forum for information,I utilized it when we were making our move and then decided to join.The bickering between the "far flung suburb" crowd and the Dallas crowd is comical.Obviously each area has alot to offer.

Last edited by CREW747; 06-23-2013 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:29 AM
 
92 posts, read 169,414 times
Reputation: 45
OP asked about Frisco, McKinney and Love Joy, to be honest it is a whole lot easier to get on their football teams compared to Plano West, Plano East, Southlake, Allen, HP or Coppell. Not every one works in Plano as you do, neither does OP. All top privates are a long drive from exurbs mentioned here so not possible to exercise that option if you need to. What's fair is fair, people buy in these areas because new houses are their top priority. However, these are fine school districts if one is not aiming to find top public schools.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,812 posts, read 4,397,061 times
Reputation: 6112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigger G View Post
1. If demographics were the only factor then East Plano, Coppell and Dallas magnets wouldn't be whooping behind of wealthy rival schools.

2. Not only these exurbs dont offer quality public education but they also make it logistically impossible to go to top tier private schools in Dallas because of their locations.

3. These are fine places if you don't need to commute or education is somewhere in the middle on your priority list and you need huge lots to raise horses and chickens but saying that schools are sought after is deception.

4. One advantage is that junior will get on football team without much competition.
Coppell is probably wealthier than all the Collin County suburbs. Try pulling up homes for sale under $250K in that city that are not tear downs or in need of major repairs/updating. Plane East's scores are helped to some degree by having the IB program which draws the best from all over Plano ISD. The Dallas Magnets are not open enrollment, you have to apply to get in, thus the magnets are able to draw on only the creme de la creme of Dallas ISD. So comparing those suburbs to the collin county schools (which are all open enrollment) is a poor example of whatever you are trying to say.

Here's the other thing that gets me. All you Plano boosters trying to get everyone to move there...Plano already has 300K people, and is pretty much built out at this point. We cant all move there! Someone is going to have to make do with the schools in another district. And I've been saying this in other threads; you dont have to be in Plano ISD to be successful!
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:48 AM
 
1,341 posts, read 4,894,372 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW747 View Post
This is a response that makes little sense.These exurbs don't offer quality public education? Seriously?

Junior will get on the football team without much competition? Allen has the best football program in the state,one of the top in the country.If tax payers wanted to pay for their state of the art,amazing stadium that is up to them.

Frisco ISD is the largest exemplary district in the state.Prosper,Alen,Frisco,Love Joy, might not be top,but they are all good districts.People are moving to these areas for good schools,safe family friendly neighborhoods and conveniences like shopping,amenities and entertainment.

Huge lots to raise horses? Don't need to commute?I am a professional working in the Plano area and have a 15 minute commute.I am surrounded by mass amounts of shopping and every amenity my family needs.Although my Town is in the process of adding retail,entertainment and dining options,if Prosper stayed a town with nothing added other than more houses I would be fine with that.I am so close already to mass amounts of shopping,entertainment and dining.

Are you aware that the city of Plano is close to 300,000 people? Denton ,Mc Kinney and Frisco are close to 150,000 people each and growing fast.Do you realize how many people commute to work in those areas? These are mega cities.W,ploy,ent hubs,not just large bedroom communities.It takes me about a half hour to get to the North Dallas.Would that be a long commute for me if I worked there? No.Posters that make it seem like areas like Frisco,Prosper,Mc Kinney and Allen are out in the middle of nowhere are conveying misleading information.Why are people moving to these areas in droves,where the average home price is not cheap,well over $300,000? Are all these upper income earners ok with their children not getting a quality education?

Posters knock down the northern suburbs far more than I specifically knock down Dallas and the inner ring areas on this forum.This is a forum for information,I utilized it when we were making our move and then decided to join.The bickering between the "far flung suburb" crowd and the Dallas posters is comical.Obviously each are has alot to offer.
As a new transplant, its insulting to hear how if one chooses anything other than the preached areas by the handful of posters on this single board is dooming their children to a life of "common". I highly doubt that the homes running into the half million and million dollar +mark, OUTSIDE the districts are parents who are messing with their childs education. There will be a handful of common in all districts, and all schools.

The expectation, peers, classes and life choices start directly with parents at a young age. Those lessons are fostered right from the beginning. Choosing a terrific or "the best" school district is icing on the cake. Picking a school--that is second tier, doesn't equate to being second tier in life. If that is the case, then that is mistake of parents at home. What a strange thing to say.

Also keep in mind that new transplants like myself also may also see the school choices as an upgrade from where they are from. Maybe your original school doesn't have as many national merits, or the highest SAT scores that the usual suspects have, but they "second tiers" such as the friscos/allens..and others are waayyyyy ahead of where you come from..so at the end of the day, its a win-win situation.

I commend the die hard locals in being passionate about the schools and its is evident of the school pride, but there are other choices..and those choices do not lead to mediocre. The end result of being just average rests on the child, the influence of the parents, the peers they keep, the family values at home, etc etc etc. In my entire circle of friends all Asian professionals (doctors, dentists, IT, and successful business owners)...and there extended families that I know of, I don't think anyone of them went to a plano like school. It was the direct influence of the Asian way of growing up. The competition was fostered at home, success in life was fostered at home, doing well and respecting yourself was fostered at home.

My parents and myself, didn't rely on the school district to do it for me. Come to think of it, I don't even know where any of my friends went to high school unless it was a private. I just know they all came from well educated, upper class families with high expectations...and that is was translated down to the kids...which which translate down to mine.

To each his own. I know that we are looking for more land..and have added southlake and Coppell to our search. WP/Allen and Frisco still are in the mix. Just have to look at the toll situation from southlake/flomo/Coppell since we have friends there and they say its just a little more laid back and tight knit.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:19 AM
 
1,315 posts, read 2,669,333 times
Reputation: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2gurls View Post
As a new transplant, its insulting to hear how if one chooses anything other than the preached areas by the handful of posters on this single board is dooming their children to a life of "common". I highly doubt that the homes running into the half million and million dollar +mark, OUTSIDE the districts are parents who are messing with their childs education. There will be a handful of common in all districts, and all schools.

The expectation, peers, classes and life choices start directly with parents at a young age. Those lessons are fostered right from the beginning. Choosing a terrific or "the best" school district is icing on the cake. Picking a school--that is second tier, doesn't equate to being second tier in life. If that is the case, then that is mistake of parents at home. What a strange thing to say.

I commend the die hard locals in being passionate about the schools and its is evident of the school pride, but there are other choices..and those choices do not lead to mediocre. The end result of being just average rests on the child, the influence of the parents, the peers they keep, the family values at home, etc etc etc. In my entire circle of friends all Asian professionals (doctors, dentists, IT, and successful business owners)...and there extended families that I know of, I don't think anyone of them went to a plano like school. It was the direct influence of the Asian way of growing up. The competition was fostered at home, success in life was fostered at home, doing well and respecting yourself was fostered at home.

My parents and myself, didn't rely on the school district to do it for me. Come to think of it, I don't even know where any of my friends went to high school unless it was a private. I just know they all came from well educated, upper class families with high expectations...and that is was translated down to the kids...which which translate down to mine.

To each his own. I know that we are looking for more land..and have added southlake and Coppell to our search. WP/Allen and Frisco still are in the mix. Just have to look at the toll situation from southlake/flomo/Coppell since we have friends there and they say its just a little more laid back and tight knit.

Agreed....

"Also keep in mind that new transplants like myself also may also see the school choices as an upgrade from where they are from. Maybe your original school doesn't have as many national merits, or the highest SAT scores that the usual suspects have, but they "second tiers" such as the friscos/allens..and others are waayyyyy ahead of where you come from..so at the end of the day, its a win-win situation."

I think this applies to alot of new residents in the DFW area.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Earth
794 posts, read 1,664,863 times
Reputation: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2gurls View Post
As a new transplant, its insulting to hear how if one chooses anything other than the preached areas by the handful of posters on this single board is dooming their children to a life of "common". I highly doubt that the homes running into the half million and million dollar +mark, OUTSIDE the districts are parents who are messing with their childs education. There will be a handful of common in all districts, and all schools.

The expectation, peers, classes and life choices start directly with parents at a young age. Those lessons are fostered right from the beginning. Choosing a terrific or "the best" school district is icing on the cake. Picking a school--that is second tier, doesn't equate to being second tier in life. If that is the case, then that is mistake of parents at home. What a strange thing to say.

Also keep in mind that new transplants like myself also may also see the school choices as an upgrade from where they are from. Maybe your original school doesn't have as many national merits, or the highest SAT scores that the usual suspects have, but they "second tiers" such as the friscos/allens..and others are waayyyyy ahead of where you come from..so at the end of the day, its a win-win situation.

I commend the die hard locals in being passionate about the schools and its is evident of the school pride, but there are other choices..and those choices do not lead to mediocre. The end result of being just average rests on the child, the influence of the parents, the peers they keep, the family values at home, etc etc etc. In my entire circle of friends all Asian professionals (doctors, dentists, IT, and successful business owners)...and there extended families that I know of, I don't think anyone of them went to a plano like school. It was the direct influence of the Asian way of growing up. The competition was fostered at home, success in life was fostered at home, doing well and respecting yourself was fostered at home.

My parents and myself, didn't rely on the school district to do it for me. Come to think of it, I don't even know where any of my friends went to high school unless it was a private. I just know they all came from well educated, upper class families with high expectations...and that is was translated down to the kids...which which translate down to mine.

To each his own. I know that we are looking for more land..and have added southlake and Coppell to our search. WP/Allen and Frisco still are in the mix. Just have to look at the toll situation from southlake/flomo/Coppell since we have friends there and they say its just a little more laid back and tight knit.

I've noticed your earlier posts. You sound really confused and spread all over the DFW or are you still exploring other states as well?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:46 PM
 
1,341 posts, read 4,894,372 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by GripeWater View Post
I've noticed your earlier posts. You sound really confused and spread all over the DFW or are you still exploring other states as well?
Not confused, thanks. We just have the choice to pick the state and the area, so we want to explore all options...I am just starting to feel that west plano/frisco and allen may be just to busy for my taste..but dh office will want to be in plano..so the commute factor is on my mind. Right now we have 1.35 acres of land, in a very nice upper class area, quiet, great schools...and we don't live inside big box retail. So It would be nice to live in more quieter area of town..but not so far where it takes 20 minutes to get to the mall (like we had). It seems like the only place where you can get a little quiet, more land, good schools will be the outer areas of flower mound, Coppell, and southlake. Since dh need to be near the airport for trips...that side of the area seems good. A friend of our suggested Colleyville (they live on the M streets)..another in flower mound said its more chilled out over there. And a fellow west plano mom, said you just cannot beat the amenities of frisco/allen/plano. All professional families,moms with kids..with valid points to look at. All stated that you cannot go wrong in the areas we are focusing on. And most importantly, all have said once you get here, things will be clear as each town can be similar but also very different in their own ways.

Oddly enough...all of them said that they would move to Austin anyday!!! go figure!
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