What's Up with North Oak Cliff.....nice area now? (Dallas: apartments, crime)

[miz77]

Ok, so I always thought Oak Cliff area (I think southern) was a very bad, undesirable, very unsafe area.....but I am reading that North Oak Cliff is actually a decent area now.....

So, what's up with the Oak Cliff area? How far is North from South and is the Northside really actually safe and do you think will remain safe in the long term? It looks like the schools are bad though?

Are there any Whole Foods or similar food shopping near there? Greenspace??

Thanks!!

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by miz77

Ok, so I always thought Oak Cliff area (I think southern) was a very bad, undesirable, very unsafe area.....but I am reading that North Oak Cliff is actually a decent area now.....

So, what's up with the Oak Cliff area? How far is North from South and is the Northside really actually safe and do you think will remain safe in the long term? It looks like the schools are bad though?

Are there any Whole Foods or similar food shopping near there? Greenspace??

Thanks!!

North Oak Cliff has little to no high-end retail or restaurants outside of the small Bishop Arts area. There's definitely not a Whole Foods down there. I think the closest one is the one in Lakewood.

It's not a bad area; it has more nuisance crime and property crime than some other more prosperous areas, but it's not dangerous.

I hear some of the elementary schools have really stepped it up, but the high schools still aren't very good. If you're going to raise kids there, you'll want to go private at some point.

[Considering Coming Back]

"North Oak Cliff" is a catch-all for Kessler and Stevens Park, Winnetka Heights, and Bishop Arts. Those areas have long been on the radar of Dallasites, but unknown to relos and suburban types.

Judging from the comments here I think it will stay that way. It will seem minority heavy, crime prone, and dirty to people who just want to eat at Chili's and park their SUV in a front facing garage.

Kessler especially has always been the end goal for many of the liberal elite in Dallas. Quite a few mayors and other politicos have lived in the neighborhood.

[miz77]

Well, coming from Atlanta, I still have to laugh at what people there consider minority!! Is the nicer parts affordable or expensive....sounds like Kessler is expensive...our budget is no more than $330,000..Lakewood from there is how far driving time? It sounds like that area might have some more artsy/crunchy people...is this correct? Thanks!!

[Considering Coming Back]

The 3 local high schools are all over 90% Hispanic and less than 2% white. Pretty sure that would be considered minority in ATL.

You won't get much in Kessler at $330K, but you could get a nice bungalow in Winnetka or Kings Highway. Something like this (good elementry school, too):

114 N Windomere Ave, Dallas, TX 75208 - Recently Sold Home Price - realtor.com®

Drive to Lakewood is about 20 minutes. Your closets Whole Foods will actually be the one in Oak Lawn, only about a 10 minute drive.

[TrueDat]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

North Oak Cliff has little to no high-end retail or restaurants outside of the small Bishop Arts area. There's definitely not a Whole Foods down there. I think the closest one is the one in Lakewood.

The closest and easiest Whole Foods to access is the Lomo Alto store in Oak Lawn/Highland Park. It's 7 miles to that location, 10 to Lakewood.

However, there's a health food grocery coming into the Sylvan-Thirty development at Sylvan and I-30, Cox Farms out of Duncanville, that should be open later this year/early next. Cox Farms Market - Home Page

There's also Urban Acres, a co-op that's open three days a week to the public and sells locally sourced organic vegetables and fruits, Empire Bakery bread, low-heat pasteurized milk, and a small amount of other items. They will also do grilling of meats and vegetables sometimes and, if you're lucky, you'll get a free sample. The Urban Roost | from Urban Acres

In addition to what's happening in Bishop Arts, there are also things happening further west along Davis (Kessler Theatre, Urban Acres, a restaurant called Nova, The Pour House, and the new Alta Davis apartments), and don't forget The Belmont Hotel and the restaurant Smoke up at Sylvan and I-30, across from where Sylvan-Thirty is going in.

Redevelopment of Jefferson Blvd. (where the Texas Theatre is) is just beginning but, in a few years, that could be a destination street much like Davis but with a more Hispanic atmosphere.

When Phil Romano's massive restaurant complex, Trinity Grove, opens at the foot of the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge opens by the end of this year, that should spark even more development throughout West Dallas and North Oak Cliff. Not to mention the new trolley that will go from downtown to Methodist Hospital and on to Bishop Arts is going to bring more tourist dollars(as well as development) to the area. It's only a matter of time, assuming the economy holds up, that the whole area's poppin'.

With what's happening in North Oak Cliff, West Dallas, and the Design District, both sides of the Trinity River in this area are probably going to be transformed in the next decade.

But what's commonly referred to as Oak Cliff is a big place. I'm sure there will still be areas that will remain under or poorly developed.

[rantanamo]

Originally Posted by miz77

Ok, so I always thought Oak Cliff area (I think southern) was a very bad, undesirable, very unsafe area.....but I am reading that North Oak Cliff is actually a decent area now.....

So, what's up with the Oak Cliff area? How far is North from South and is the Northside really actually safe and do you think will remain safe in the long term? It looks like the schools are bad though?

Are there any Whole Foods or similar food shopping near there? Greenspace??

Thanks!!

The Kessler Park area has always been a nice area. If its not the prettiest area of DFW, its one of the top 2 or 3. Very hilly, huge mature trees by any standard, and lots of creeks and pretty park areas. A lot of the recent buzz(last 10-15 years), has been the slow single family home gentrification that has slowly crawled to the south, Bishop Arts emerging as one of the greater nightlife/hangout spots and the more recent West Dallas gentrification buzz, which is the area immediately to the North across I-30. This area is about to blow up with development. Not a maybe, but its a certainty with West Dallas, projects planned and started to the West of this area and the planned reno of Jefferson Blvd. For those already there, I'm not advocating any of this or dismissing what's already there. Just saying, the gentrification train has already left the station. Part of the charm is not having the usual big box haunts in big number, but there is nearby big box retail a couple of miles west on I-30. But more immediate is coming with Sylvan 30 in the next year. With the way the zoning is for west Dallas, and projects there will probably be an over abundance of it in the next 5 years.

As for how far south, the furthest south I've seen people from the north moving are the neighborhoods immediately north of Illinois Ave. Again, this is all very slow paced compared to suburban growth so far, but it is happening.

[miz77]

it looks like a lot of the houses are 2-3 bedroom....are there houses with 4 bedrooms that are affordable? Suggested specific zip codes for the nice areas? would really love to be in an area like that in DFW with the creeks, not so flat, homes with character. Will that area be ready for that sort of growth road wise? My concern is if traffic will become an issue or if it will be handled well. I know that here in GA there was NO preparation done for growth and these roads are more and more congested....and not many roads to begin with.

[Considering Coming Back]

The roads are significantly below capacity. Like 200k people would have to move in for it to be an issue. Don't worry about that.

There are 4 bedrooms, but everything in life is a trade off. A 4 bedroom in Kessler will run $700K plus. Something farther south, not as fixed up, not as nice a block might come in under $300K. Look in 75208. There isn't much "character" in Dallas, so what's left commands a premium.

You might have better luck in ranch houses near creeks. Wynnewood -75224 or outside of Oak Cliff in Lochwood- 75218.

[TrueDat]

Maybe Kidd Springs (just south of Kessler Park) or East Kessler Park. Zip code 75208.

Here's a map of OC neighborhoods to give you some idea of locations: The Neighborhoods of Oak Cliff