Toll Roads in Dallas (Spring, The Colony: school, price, vs.)

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by binkyman

Tollways allow cities to build freeways now rather than in the future to handle huge population growth areas. But a tollway can cost the taxpayer as much as one and a half, two, to two and a half times as much to build than it would have if taxpayer money would have been used to build it because money is collected over time to pay off the loan. But then even after the taxpayer has finished paying off the tollway, the state, city, county, or whomever will continue collecting money on them to help finance maintenance on existing tollways, or even to help build other ones.

Not really. Concrete is concrete. It then comes down to schedule. And then the net present value of not doing anything. DFW waited a decade for 190 to be built. NTTA built it in two years. Ditto 121. A lot of the growth waited for these roads. It cost the state and local agencies tax money while waiting for the state to do nothing.

As far as cost goes - it really comes down to interest rates.

The state can issue the bonds and then use tax money to maintain the roads. Or, the tollway can issue the bonds and then use tolls to pay the bonds and maintain the road. There is very little spread between NTTA and TXDOT bonds.

So I do not see where you get off on it costing more for NTTA vs TXDOT.

From a qualitative standpoint, the differences are one of local control and re-investment/maintenance.

The tollway, if properly configured as an independent agency, will pay off the bonds and reinvest in the local roads. And will answer to local needs.

A state DOT has other priorities and so does the legislature. Local needs must compete with other needs. And regional groups can gang up to starve a city or area for political reasons.

[Pete53FR]

Somehow I believe that it is wrong for toll roads to grab highways that were already built and paid for by taxpayers. I also don't care to much for the arrogant attitude of the Toll Road Board of Directors.

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by Pete53FR

Somehow I believe that it is wrong for toll roads to grab highways that were already built and paid for by taxpayers. I also don't care to much for the arrogant attitude of the Toll Road Board of Directors.

Well, they're buying the road. I mean, it's not like it's some sweetheart deal where the state is just giving them the road for $1. It's an arms length transaction at the end of the day. If it results in better transportation and infrastructure, I'm for it. If you don't invest in infrastructure, you end up with a traffic-choked place like LA. And that's bad for everyone.

[Saintmarks]

On Sunday I came across a new two lane stretch of road in northern Collin County, about halfway between Anna and Melissa. It is called the Outer Loop Road and begins just east of 75 and runs due east to 121. It will be one of the access roads for the future Outer Loop Tollway that will circle the entire metroplex. You can already travel this stretch even though it was blocked at highway 5 as they are still working on the grade level crossing on the railraod tracks that run parallel to 5.

More toll roads to come!

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by tombraider

Does anyone know about the route from Prosper/Frisco to DFW Airport? I think it's TX Toll-121? Bad traffic in peak times and/or cost?
Thank you for the links BeenThereDunThat

I travel the SRT from McKinney to Frisco almost everyday. It is almost always full speed limit this entire route and even on down thru the Lewisville/Coppell area even during rush hour. However, when you near the Grapevine Mills area, expect it all to come to a complete halt any time of day with all of the construction near the airport.

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by tombraider

Does anyone know about the route from Prosper/Frisco to DFW Airport? I think it's TX Toll-121? Bad traffic in peak times and/or cost?
Thank you for the links BeenThereDunThat

I get on the Sam Rayburn often. Traffic is not too bad. There are times 35E backs on to the tollway, minor delay. Getting on the tollway at Lake Forest(in Mckinney) will require a payment at Custer Gate: $1.80. Next payment with no exit will be Josey Ln: $1.30. Exits have various prices from $0.20(ish) to $0.90 type prices. Denton Tap is the last gate in Coppell it is $0.50.

After Denton Tap it turns to two lanes per direction and is a traffic nightmare. 635 and 114 merge with 121 in a short distance.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I travel the SRT from McKinney to Frisco almost everyday. It is almost always full speed limit this entire route and even on down thru the Lewisville/Coppell area even during rush hour. However, when you near the Grapevine Mills area, expect it all to come to a complete halt any time of day with all of the construction near the airport.

That 70 MPH speed limit sure is nice. I wish the tolls down here would do that.

[kidicarus89]

Originally Posted by VegasMan_72

That is why it is optional. No one is forcing you to take the toll roads. I give you that DNT is pretty bad at the stretch that you mentioned above between rush hours. NTTA has plans for widening that section in the near future. Trust me, nobody is getting rich off these toll roads. It takes a lot to maintain these roads. When people say no to any gas tax increase it is almost impossible to fund our infrastructure. The last federal gas tax increase was in 1993. A study by Texas A&M concluded that by raising gas tax 5 cent we can construct 80% of the future roads in Texas and with 10 cent increase all projects can be built for the next 10 years without any tolls.

As you can see the automobile technology has advanced a lot in 20 years. With a lot more energy efficient cars on the road, not everybody is paying their fair share to use them. Going to a VMT system will make a lot more sense.

Thank you. I don't think people realize how much massive stretches of concrete that span hundreds of miles cost. Nobody wants the federal excise tax to be raised, but everyone wants city-spanning freeways and highways that run smoothly. I also agree that a VMT is probably the best idea (maybe inevitable), especially now that hybrids and EVs are the future of the car.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by RonnieinDallas

Holland doesn't build out side of it's dikes/levees

The Trinity Parkway Project was proposed within the levee's. Plus, it was just a terrible plan, even if the Tollway were engineered to withstand flooding. It basically connected southeast Dallas with Irving, and had very few entrance ramps, and wouldn't have decongested traffic on 35e or 175(which isn't congested anyway). Hardly anyone is going back and forth between those places.

D Magazine : Let's Ditch the Trinity River Toll Road



Care to explain?
LOL, this should be good...

1). The folks in Holland build all kinds of things outside, "it's dikes/levees". I've been there clearly you have not.

2). Kansai International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by EDS_

1). The folks in Holland build all kinds of things outside, "it's dikes/levees". I've been there clearly you have not.

2). Kansai International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

1)Actually I have, and they do not. Even near a levee is risky, just ask any New Orleans native who's home was destroyed by Katrina flooding

2)That is not a good example. Building an island in Japan is not the same as building a highway next to a river that floods almost every year. There's a reason why we built the big bridges over the Trinity.

Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge Flooding January 2012 - YouTube

Trinity Parkway was a disaster, and not needed.