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Old 08-30-2013, 08:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Benjamin View Post
I'm curious about who supplies rankings of individual undergrad majors at different universities. US News, for example, just ranks the undergrad school as a whole, right?

Sadly, TX is not alone in admitting deeply unqualified students in order to be able to don the mantle of diversity. (Google recent coverage of a student named Kashawn Campbell at Berkeley.) Research by Richard Sander and Peter Arcidiacono shows exactly what you would expect: these students (i.e. the lower ranks of the auto-admits) drop out, take longer to graduate, flock to the easiest majors, abandon plans to major in a STEM field, etc., because they simply can't keep up with the Plano kids --when they would have done just fine at a less competitive university where the pace was slower.

CA voters did away with affirmative action, which simply redistributed the lower-ranked students (i.e. like the auto-admits here, more heavily poor/minority) from Berkeley to Riverside, where they actually were more successful in college. That's a good thing, right? Not according to the diversity enforcers in the university and the media, who felt it was a moral scandal to have fewer minorities at Berkeley. So they simply ignored the law in a stunning exercise of doublethink, as documented in Ruth Starkman's recent faux-naive op-ed in the New York Times about "holistic admissions." (Basically: break the law to get more poor minorities in the door, without saying so openly.)

To return to Texas, similarly, here, UT has half a dozen campuses across the state where a kid with a 900-1000 SAT has a better shot at success than he does swimming with the sharks at UT... why not send them there? What are the other campuses for, anyway? It's not some kind of scarlet letter to graduate from a regional campus. I just read an interview with UTA grad Wayne Watts, general counsel of AT&T. He seems to be doing OK. For that matter, so is AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, graduate of Central Oklahoma (also not a flagship!) (I don't think you'll find a single Ivy degree in the whole AT&T C-Suite...)




Better to have the Valley grads go to UTEP, UT Brownsville, UTD, UTA, etc., if that's where their qualifications take them. Getting into UT only to be set up to fail is bad for the Valley kids who do that, bad for the HPISD kids who would have done better in their place, pretty much bad for everyone except for the UT admins, politicians, and intellectuals who need to have the moral validation of being able to say that the flagship campus is "diverse."
US News and others rank individual programs.

Generally, I agree with your assessment of UT's and TAMU's satellite schools. However, you have to remove UTD from that list. UTD's in bound SAT and ACT averages are higher than UT Austin. In fact the only Texas school with higher scores is Rice of course Rice's are on par with the most selective schools on the planet.

I think it was Bill Powers himself who said that in a few years UTD would be Texas' version of UCLA.

My son goes is in medical school, an excellent one to boot, and even there certain folks are admitted while being below par in academic accomplishment - and they seem to struggle at least a bit. There's actually published data about certain preferred groups showing how the drop out more and take longer to finish and rank lower etc. It's sad that we allow any of this to go on.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post

I think it was Bill Powers himself who said that in a few years UTD would be Texas' version of UCLA.
I've seen the UTD basketball team in action. I didn't see any future Kareem Abdul-Jabbars on their roster.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: North Texas
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Originally Posted by Big G View Post
I've seen the UTD basketball team in action. I didn't see any future Kareem Abdul-Jabbars on their roster.

Academics > sports.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
My son goes is in medical school, an excellent one to boot, and even there certain folks are admitted while being below par in academic accomplishment - and they seem to struggle at least a bit. There's actually published data about certain preferred groups showing how the drop out more and take longer to finish and rank lower etc. It's sad that we allow any of this to go on.
This is why I disagree with people saying all med schools are the same. I go to an out of state private school and comparing it to any of the texas schools, including utsw, the quality of students is so much better at my school (more selective/ smaller size). I think the huge class size of texas med schools and the 90% rule hurts all the schools, but I think Texas's goal is to churn out as many drs as they can. But I guess in the end, they don't really see anything wrong with it since if you can get through all 4 yrs at any school and pass the boards, then you have what it takes to be a physician.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
I've seen the UTD basketball team in action. I didn't see any future Kareem Abdul-Jabbars on their roster.
Maybe Bill Walton has some eligibility left?
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:24 AM
 
7,283 posts, read 8,120,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by facebookdigg123 View Post
This is why I disagree with people saying all med schools are the same. I go to an out of state private school and comparing it to any of the texas schools, including utsw, the quality of students is so much better at my school (more selective/ smaller size). I think the huge class size of texas med schools and the 90% rule hurts all the schools, but I think Texas's goal is to churn out as many drs as they can. But I guess in the end, they don't really see anything wrong with it since if you can get through all 4 yrs at any school and pass the boards, then you have what it takes to be a physician.

The top 10% GPA (TTP as it is sometimes known as) rule as such does not apply to Texas medical schools. It's 100% competitive admissions but 90% of kids must have Texas residency. All state funded medical schools across the US have similar residency restrictions and they are usually much more strict.

Regarding UTSW and I'll throw Baylor Med. into the mix - I just looked to be sure and of course I don't know where you go. One source has Harvard Medical's average broad inbound stats as 3.8 GPA and ~35 MACT. UTSW's are 3.83 GPA and ~34 MCAT and obviously that includes all of the special admits that Harvard does not have to deal with if they decide not to-.

Your disdain for Texas medical schools seems broadly misplaced both UTSW and Baylor students annually demonstrate excellent Step 1 scores (Baylor's almost look faked), both match residents very well and both are affiliated with massive hospitals complexes.

My son's college advisor came up with some statistical analysis of medical schools over a five year span - imagine a band across MCAT scores (maybe it was 1.5 pts wide) and across GPAs (IIRC that was a breakout with anything below a 3.75 average kicking a school out). This is also no one full year old FWIIW - Washington University and Duke were above the band for MCAT scores. (WU - 38, Duke - 36)
I'll finish in a bit.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:29 PM
 
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Interesting thread. One of the decision factors leading to our move to Texas is the choices available for my son's future college education. I have read other threads about the difficulty in getting admitted to UT and other TX schools, but try not to plan too much since this decision is 6 years away for us. I am a little alarmed with the disparaging comments or opinions about Frisco or non-Plano high schools. Since this area is expanding so quickly, and so many new schools being built, I am wondering how the AP programs compare between the regional high schools in the North Dallas area. Where is a reliable, update resource for this data? We were leaning toward the Frisco area. I would be curious to hear some personal experiences with the Frisco HS system/courses offered and the subsequent college admission experience.
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:09 PM
 
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Believe me ALL the high schools know their AP test scores and their sister schools' AP scores...
getting an accurate replay of that info is a little more difficult since years when they don't do well, they usually don't want to release...
you also need to take into consideration the funding for the classes to support a wide-range of AP classes has been hurt by the state requiring 4 years of math and science and SS for most students--I think all grades now have a 4 yr requirement...
so many classrooms and teachers have been needed to fill those required classes where students would choose an elective in the past...

When I Google AP tests and Plano ISD this link came up

Advanced Placement : Plano ISD
you can see it has general info but not history of the test results for Plano students in past years...
but there are many classes offered...........
this link gives a general lump sum of the 2011 AP test results
2011 Post-Secondary Readiness Report / News Archive : Plano ISD
w/o going into specific tests -- like AP US History or Spanish

The counselors know, the admin staff at each school and the district office knows exactly how many students scored what grade on what test...
and remember that in Plano students pay for the test themselves and some students who think they will not score high won't take it...they are in AP for the raised GPA/credit...

at my district HEB ISD where students are often strapped for cash to pay for 4 or 5 AP tests a year (or more) the district has the funds and has paid for ALL students in an AP class to take the test--so their numbers regarding who is taking the class, who is taking the test, and their score is pretty indicative of the pass/fail performance of the CLASS--not just best students...
and the teachers of the AP classes usually have the grade structured so that students at least have to take the AP test to get some measure of credit in their regular class--
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:31 PM
 
350 posts, read 618,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Believe me ALL the high schools know their AP test scores and their sister schools' AP scores...
getting an accurate replay of that info is a little more difficult since years when they don't do well, they usually don't want to release...
you also need to take into consideration the funding for the classes to support a wide-range of AP classes has been hurt by the state requiring 4 years of math and science and SS for most students--I think all grades now have a 4 yr requirement...
so many classrooms and teachers have been needed to fill those required classes where students would choose an elective in the past...

When I Google AP tests and Plano ISD this link came up

Advanced Placement : Plano ISD
you can see it has general info but not history of the test results for Plano students in past years...


The counselors know, the admin staff at each school and the district office knows exactly how many students scored what grade on what test...
and remember that in Plano students pay for the test themselves and some students who think they will not score high won't take it...they are in AP for the raised GPA/credit...
On Newsweek's list of best high schools, they have the school's average AP score.
2013 America's Best High Schools - Newsweek and The Daily Beast

Yes, it's just a number, like all numbers.

Plano West does have the highest average AP score out of all public schools (including magnets) in the region.

In my experience, although it is optional, almost all PISD students (at least in the Plano West feeder) take the AP exam if their in the course, because it exempts them from having to take a final exam in the spring. In their minds, it's better to take an AP exam, and not be hurt if you do poorly, than take a final exam on which poor performance can really damage your final grade. So I do think that number is relatively reflective of what's going on in the classrooms.

School districts will often list what AP courses they offer on their websites; if you can't find that, see if you can find a course catalogue.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:11 PM
 
27,478 posts, read 44,959,956 times
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Exempting a final exam for an AP class was an option when I was teaching at Bell--depending on a student's attendance and class average--but they usually couldn't exempt all their finals...
but taking a 0 for say a major grade for NOT taking the AP exam was guaranteed to bring down an average in a honors class--usually not something they wanted to have happen when they were dueling for top 10 slots..

the school wanted them to take the AP exams to help raise the schools' profile--
but now that Bell has such a strong IB program the AP stream is suffering---the brighter students are in the IB stream and while some of them might take an AP test just to see if they can earn credit w/o the specific focus the AP class might add I think most of them are doing OK with the IB process and earning their credits that way...
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