Ex-students of DFW schools - weigh in on educational and social climate of middle and high schools (Dallas: middle-class, houses)

[deenie1]

I've posted here before about wanting to move to DFW with my family. We've only visited once all together and that was a couple of weeks ago. My DH needs to find a job first and then I can look for a P/T faculty or counseling position once he's set. A recent post re: Plano East vs. Frisco got me thinking. I've heard all of the great things about Plano West and believe their reputation speaks for itself but I wonder about the other suburbs as well. One of my biggest considerations for our move is the school system. With 2 graduate degrees myself, my DH and I place great importance on education but, as a mental health counselor, I also know that "emotional intelligence" is just as important to excel in life, so I am looking for a good fit for my kids. Although we are looking in $400-$500k neighborhoods, I don't want to place my 9&10 year-olds in a town where they will always feel they need to have "newer, better, nicer..." At the same time, I do want them to appreciate and take advantage of what we can provide for them and want to be in a nice neighborhood. When we were there, we looked at a few houses in W. Plano and surrounding towns and loved the feel of Coppell.

My kids are avg./good students but the school system they're in now (in NJ) has gone downhill over the past decade and I'd like to relocate before middle/high school. These are such critical years and I know my kids would greatly benefit from positive peer pressure. I loved reading some of the posts about how students just felt the need to excel because that was what everyone did around them - what a great motivating factor. I think a very competitive environment would be wonderful but I also don't want them overwhelmed because that can also work the other way. Now I know a lot depends upon the work commute but I'd like to hear from alum or their parents as to some of the schools and the "climate," so to speak. I can look at TAKS scores and I know standardized testing is a necessary evil in our society but research shows that raw intelligence is but a snippet of the whole picture (I am a perfect example of that - bad GRE scores but 4.0 avg in grad school). Self-control, which is commonly measured by report card grades, is just as important for academic success. Self-control is linked to the ability to regulate emotion, attention and behavior to attain goals and values of personal importance. Studying, completing homework and positive conduct in the classroom all relate to self-control. The student who focuses on long-term gains over short-term impulsive behavior is also less likely to get involved in criminal activity, abuse drugs/alcohol, etc. These students usually have an increased level of life satisfaction, positive relationships and an overall happier and productive outlook. Very few schools educate children to be competitive in a way that positively impacts their lives and teaches them skills that will take them past the test. With kids growing up in this electronic age, the schools that also address conflict resolution, peer pressure and social skills, is so important and often elusive.

Since DFW seems to have some of the better public school systems in the nation, I'd like to know from those of you who have first-hand experience. (Currently we live in an upper middle class town and we're kind of in the middle of that group. I explain to my kids that someone will always have more than you and some will always have less...) TIA!

[DitsyD]

I'm a graduate of Plano Senior High School and I loved it. I had friends that liked the same things that I did and I didn't feel a negative peer pressure. I took the classes that I needed to get into a good school and I was accepted into Baylor with a NMS scholarship.

My son attends PESH and he isn't the type A student. He takes some AP classes. He has a few close friends and enjoys being at PESH. He will probably get into the college of his choice.

My daughter started middle school this year, and while it is too soon to know much about it, this has been the best start of a school year ever for her.

The thing I found about Plano schools, any of the high schools and senior high schools at least, is that they are large enough that a student can find friends and peers that are at their comfort level. If your student wants to be challenged, there are those students that challenge and up the ante. If your student is happy working hard but not full court press, then they will find those students as well. Into music, they will find that. Into sports, that is there too. Anime? Got it. Cooking? Computers? They have the classes and clubs and students that share those interests.

From speaking to friends that attended smaller schools and friends that have children at smaller schools, they didn't have all of the choices that I and my children had/have. And, because every one did know every one, then social peer pressure was much stronger. Shunning works better in a smaller environment.

I think any school that your children are comfortable in should work for your family. Go with your gut and good luck!

Just my $.02.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by deenie1

Although we are looking in $400-$500k neighborhoods, I don't want to place my 9&10 year-olds in a town where they will always feel they need to have "newer, better, nicer..." At the same time, I do want them to appreciate and take advantage of what we can provide for them and want to be in a nice neighborhood.

Then don't move to West Plano, or Southlake.
Unfortunately, in your price range in DFW, that is what most of those neighborhoods will be full of.

[Lakewooder]

In East Dallas/Lakewood we make fun of "newer, better, nicer" - also "bigger"....

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

Then don't move to West Plano, or Southlake.
Unfortunately, in your price range in DFW, that is what most of those neighborhoods will be full of.

It comes down to the parents and the priorities they set. Not where the kids live.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by TX75007

It comes down to the parents and the priorities they set. Not where the kids live.

In theory, yes. But in reality, peer pressue is HUGE. MANY kids in Southlake get brand new cars for their 16th birthdays, and I frequently see the CHS students at the gym with designer clothing, purses, etc.

It will be pretty tough to find an area of $500k homes in DFW where the majority of the residents are practical, down-to-earth people. Lakewood probably comes closer than many areas, and that's likely because not all of the kids at WW come from upper-middle-class families.

[PISDstudent]

Originally Posted by DitsyD

The thing I found about Plano schools, any of the high schools and senior high schools at least, is that they are large enough that a student can find friends and peers that are at their comfort level. If your student wants to be challenged, there are those students that challenge and up the ante. If your student is happy working hard but not full court press, then they will find those students as well. Into music, they will find that. Into sports, that is there too. Anime? Got it. Cooking? Computers? They have the classes and clubs and students that share those interests.

From speaking to friends that attended smaller schools and friends that have children at smaller schools, they didn't have all of the choices that I and my children had/have. And, because every one did know every one, then social peer pressure was much stronger. Shunning works better in a smaller environment.

I just graduated from Plano West - class of '13. While my thoughts on the caliber and academics of the school are well known, and you've probably already read a few of my posts, I just wanted to emphasize this. Since you seem concerned about emotional comfort and finding one's niche, which I think are very valid concerns, I would definitely look at some of the larger schools in the area.

When you're in a large, diverse, environment, you're afforded such a terrific array of people to be with - from every socioeconomic group, race, religious creed, political persuasion, academic/athletic/artistic interest, geographic origin, etc. What I learned over the years from people who are similar to me in someways, yet still very different, has been invaluable. For instance, as someone who is interested in foreign affairs, being able to discuss Venezuelan politics with a friend who grew up in Venezuela is a real treat. It's converstions like these that let you learn as much from your peers as you do from your classes, and good luck trying to find them in a graduating class of 250.

You are going to find some element materialism in any upper-middle class environment, and there were kids who were into that at West. But as someone who is most certainly not big on conspicuous consumption, that didn't really bother me - with the size of the school, I never really had to deal with it personally. The 'materialistic' kids were free to do whatever made them happy in their circle, and I could go about doing and discussing whatever I found meaningful in mine.

All in all, I think the recent PESH grade whose post you read did a great job of articulating the experience that those of us who went through Plano schools (and I'm sure other large and diverse ones as well) have had. The social liberty that it gives you allows for everyone to have their own adventure cetered around what's important to them.

[PISDstudent]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

In theory, yes. But in reality, peer pressue is HUGE. MANY kids in Southlake get brand new cars for their 16th birthdays, and I frequently see the CHS students at the gym with designer clothing, purses, etc.

I don't know...my experiences were definitely more aligned with TX75007. I was never in this group (I didn't have my own car, and definitely did not wear designer clothes) and I never felt that I was in a small minority at Plano West. It seemed like a lot of upper-middle and upper class families stressed to their kids that there are better ways to manage your wealth than buying all of that stuff.

[MckinneyOwnr]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

Then don't move to West Plano, or Southlake.
Unfortunately, in your price range in DFW, that is what most of those neighborhoods will be full of.

This is just flat out false. When I went to school in Plano, sure, there were some kids who were given brand new cars and had no clue what things cost. But there were far more kids who had to work for at least part of their car, and some that never had a car at all. I happened to go to school during the time that some of the wealthiest kids in Plano were going (the family that has the "M M" on their driveway gate right off Parker by West, some families related to Jerry Jones, etc) and even those kids didn't seem to care too much about having the latest and greatest stuff.

Originally Posted by PISDstudent

I don't know...my experiences were definitely more aligned with TX75007. I was never in this group (I didn't have my own car, and definitely did not wear designer clothes) and I never felt that I was in a small minority at Plano West. It seemed like a lot of upper-middle and upper class families stressed to their kids that there are better ways to manage your wealth than buying all of that stuff.

Bingo. Some of the wealthiest kids I knew were driving their parents old cars (not even "nice" ones) or had to work to save up to buy their cars. Most of my friends, and myself as well, started working the moment we hit 15 and saved up so we could get cars when we turned 16. A lot of parents chipped in the same amount that their kids had saved, which is what mine did too. Minimum wage was far less than it is now, after a year of work, if you'd saved up $2500 you were doing good.

[happycrow]

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.
Having taught at the local Community College (though they don't call it that now, apparently that's a stigma in Plano), I found myself interacting with quite a number of students who were, in fact, exactly like what ChristieP stated, many of whom were significantly better-prepared but also consistently out-hustled, out-efforted, and just out-brained* by the poor kids down in SW Dallas I also taught at the time. The difference was that the latter, if they weren't going to do it, just dropped out and did something else, where many of the former just sort of cruised on autopilot (but with very nice "stuff.")

*IQ probably not relevant, but willingness to USE what they had, VERY.