U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-01-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,072,138 times
Reputation: 3357

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOverdog View Post
Agree with that, but I think only around 20,000-30,000 people live in uptown & downtown, out of 1.2 million in the city of Dallas. There are blocks in true urban cities with 40,000 people per sq mile. But comparing apples to apples, Plano is at least as urban as the majority of the city of Dallas is, which is not very.

BTW, someone asked about Addison: it has lower population density than Dallas, not higher.
I keep seeing people refer to "uptown and Downtown" add the only urban neighborhoods on Dallas. Huh? What about Oak Cliff, Greenville, White Rock, etc?

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-01-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Earth
794 posts, read 1,351,708 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus89 View Post
Yeah Plano seems like the typical Texas suburb to me. Sprawling freeways, development concentrated on cookie-cutter housing divisions and strip malls, and auto-dominant with poor mass transit. Certainly not urban. The closest Dallas has to true urban living is Downtown and Uptown.

One of our cookie cutters. ;-)

2705 Shoal Creek Cir, Plano, TX 75093 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Irving, TX
622 posts, read 562,741 times
Reputation: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
The real questions are:

1. What is the landscape and city scape we want to be a part of?
2. What is conducive to having and raising and educating kids?
3. What is safe and clean and inspiring?
4. What has the lowest operating costs?
5. What tends to drive away corruption and fosters community?
Everything you've written is true, but I'd like to add "affordable" not merely as operating cost (#4), but price-of-entry. Suburbs aren't going away, because no matter how much they may decry "cookie-cutter-ism," urbanist prescriptions put the cart before the horse and thus simply fail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2013, 11:27 AM
 
988 posts, read 1,896,614 times
Reputation: 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Its streets are laid out in a grid like old urban neighborhoods and it has retail close to residential

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
you said it was unique in Texas. That's not unique in Texas. Perhaps in suburbia, but not unique in Texas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2013, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,913 posts, read 9,602,177 times
Reputation: 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
I keep seeing people refer to "uptown and Downtown" add the only urban neighborhoods on Dallas. Huh? What about Oak Cliff, Greenville, White Rock, etc?

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
From a purely urban design point of view: What is any different about these areas than the suburbs other than they are closer to the core downtown district? Single family residences on large lots (larger than many if not most of the lots in the burbs) that are built around the automobile as the primary mode of transportation. Yes, there is older housing stock with a wider variety of styles, but from the perspective of mapping and develpment, these are similar to the suburban areas.... if not moreso considering the average large lot size.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Dallas
2,084 posts, read 2,451,211 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasboi View Post
Great post.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
From a purely urban design point of view: What is any different about these areas than the suburbs other than they are closer to the core downtown district? Single family residences on large lots (larger than many if not most of the lots in the burbs) that are built around the automobile as the primary mode of transportation. Yes, there is older housing stock with a wider variety of styles, but from the perspective of mapping and develpment, these are similar to the suburban areas.... if not moreso considering the average large lot size.
I disagree

These neighborhoods were laid out to be connected to what's around them. Connectivity is one of the most important principles of new urbanism. Single use zoning didn't really exist back then, and the present day walk scores in the inner core neighborhoods of Dallas are much higher than the North Dallas suburbs, because they were planned to be connected to parks, schools, and retail. Also, the inner core neighborhoods of Dallas were streetcar suburbs, and did not grow as a result of highway construction. I'll also add that those streetcars were run privately, until the government stepped in and forced highways into pre-existing neighborhoods, and tore up the streetcar lines. I've repeatedly tried to emphasize on this thread that urbanism can be low-density, but that point seems to get lost in the fray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Its streets are laid out in a grid like old urban neighborhoods and it has retail close to residential

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
Cinnamon Shores in Port Aransas is a good example of low density new urbanism in Texas. The lady really emphasizes the benefits of new urbanism in the add, and the 10-12% ROI the home owners receive each year when leasing their property out, which doesn't even include the property appreciation...


Cinnamon Shore, Port Aransas Real Estate, Beach Homes - YouTube

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
Most of the posters on here begin with "received knowledge" that somehow "suburbia" is bad. They use key words like "cookie-cutter" and "mass transit" and "density" when these are just features of what is, not what is sought. And in many cases these are the result of the policies they are pushing.
What policies are people pushing?

Smart coding is the only one I've seen discussed. Smart coding makes mixed-use development legal, and gets rid of single-use coding that restricts what developers and land owners can build on their property. What's wrong with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
Dallas inner city MUST have freeways and heavy auto traffic due to the high rises. There is very little for parks, or serpentine, savannah-like streets. The anonymity fosters crime and the lack of room to re-use the land hampers restructuring use models. The very irony is that the high-rise high-density encourages the very things most people do not want.
Not the highway debate again...

It's so odd that your a highway proponent, they are outrageous government waste in most circumstances. The government has to confiscate massive amounts of land to build them at any cost, often times displacing or destroying business, and they greatly reduce the desirability of urban neighborhoods (who wants to live next-door to a highway?)

The interstate highways were never intended to be intra-city. President Eisenhower's original interstate plan strongly disapproved of highways running through densely populated cities.
Quote:
“[The President] went on to say that the matter of running Interstate routes through the congested parts of the cities was entirely against his original concept and wishes; that he never anticipated that the program would turn out this way . . . and that he was certainly not aware of any concept of using the program to build up an extensive intra-city route network as part of the program he sponsored.* He added that those who had not advised him that such was being done, and those who steered the program in such a direction, had not followed his wishes.”
Dallas does not need highways! Especially, no new ones! We've tried this, it's failed. Highways have been disastrous on urban areas across America.

If anything Dallas needs to consider putting more roads on a diet, and tear down IH-345!

MBA: Road Diet - YouTube


Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
Ultimately, for something to be sustainable, it must provide for a mix of all ages and all family groups. Families must want to live there because it is families who have the final stake in renewal and upkeep. This then drives the growth and re-uses.
That's the goal:Urbanism Principles

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX75007 View Post
The real questions are:

1. What is the landscape and city scape we want to be a part of?
2. What is conducive to having and raising and educating kids?
3. What is safe and clean and inspiring?
4. What has the lowest operating costs?
5. What tends to drive away corruption and fosters community?
The answer to all questions would be more urban walkable communities. There is currently a shortage of that type of development in DFW, as seen by the skyrocketing real estate prices in the core, and the rapidly rising in-town aparment lease rates. The consensus by Demographers and market researchers indicates a major shift in where people will choose to live. The two largest generations, the aging boomers and young gen y's are wanting urban style development. Gen x is still choosing suburban settings, but that's a small generation.

Plus, it's evident when reading relocation posts on here. Nearly every person under 30 states they want a walkable neighborhood with easy access to amenities and the desire to be near other young people.

In 2012, Harris county and Dallas county(which Dallas proper dominates) had the largest number of household inflow growth in Texas. I didn't see Collin County on the list, which use to top every national list. Suburban growth isn't over, but by the end of the decade the scale will tip to urban areas.

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/20...w-report.html/

Last edited by RonnieinDallas; 10-02-2013 at 03:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: plano
5,960 posts, read 7,508,909 times
Reputation: 5012
What city would one consider a good example of "proper" development from an urban planning stand point and is affordable as well? I would define affordable as will the average or median household income for that area be able to afford to own a housing unit in the urban area they work and want to lve in? The typical examples I see listed as ideal cities are out of line affordability wise by my definition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas
2,084 posts, read 2,451,211 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
What city would one consider a good example of "proper" development from an urban planning stand point and is affordable as well? I would define affordable as will the average or median household income for that area be able to afford to own a housing unit in the urban area they work and want to lve in? The typical examples I see listed as ideal cities are out of line affordability wise by my definition.
They are all over, but the goal of new urbanism isn't to control affordability of housing, and the principles will organically make housing in areas with this type of planning more desirable and therefore more expensive. Density is the only way to create market based affordable housing. I'll list some of neighborhoods that follow new urbanism and that are also fairly affordable:

Baldwin Park:
Baldwin Park | Master Plan
ISSUU - Navy Base to Neighborhood: The Baldwin Park Story by Barbara Koenig

Baldwin Park - Orlando, Florida - YouTube

Celebration Florida:
Official Website of the Community of Celebration| Located next to Walt Disney World | Celebration, FL

Overton Park Lubbock:
great article on Overton Park...
Quote:
By now, it cannot be denied that New Urbanism has usurped suburban development as today’s dominant residential development trend. The reasons for this are varied but the goal is universal: to bring people’s homes closer to the places where they work, shop and go for entertainment. The focus for this new development is usually on one place: downtown.

Cities all over the state of Texas have jumped on board this new trend. In general, these downtown projects can be broken down into two types: redeveloping a formerly active downtown in an effort to bring people back to the urban core or creating an official downtown where none had existed before.
Texas Real Estate Business
Overton Park
2124 Glenna Goodacre Blvd, Lubbock, TX 79401 - Zillow

Capella Park:
Dallas Master-Planned Community :: New Urbanism - Capella Park New Homes in Duncanville Texas :: New Urbanism

My only complaint with Cappella Park is that it really isn't connected to anything, and I think that's why retail has struggled there. Anyway, it's a good model for southern Dallas county to follow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,828 posts, read 3,391,863 times
Reputation: 1815
I lived in Overton Park. It's more of just apartments for students with a strip mall at the bottom across the street from campus. Lubbock it's really suburban anyways since it's so small.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Irving, TX
622 posts, read 562,741 times
Reputation: 915
I see absolutely nothing here addressing the fundamental reasons for sprawl.

Baldwin Park video looks nice, but I couldn't afford the *cars* in that video, let alone the houses. Far as I can tell, if that's the exemplar, "new urbanism" stands for "really really nice suburbs, with really really nice suburban houses, for people who can afford it."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top