Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My BIL and his 2 sisters came up through HPISD K-12, all professionals in their 30s, and while I'm sure they heard some racist talk here and there (just like I did at my decidedly middle class HS), I sure don't think it was the norm. They are a great family. Honestly, I had my own set of preconceived notions about Highland Park residents until I got to know him and his family. You can form stereotypes about any area, religious group, or affiliation. Not to sound like Pollyanna, but it's best to get to know the person unless they are just downright hateful.
This is 100% correct. I was at HPHS during one of the dress up weeks. We never had dress as the help day, though there was "Thug Day". It's gone now and has been for quite sometime. Also, if you were to go to any high preforming public HS in the DFW area, you wouldn't be able to tell a different between the students and the way they conduct themselves, apart from maybe their race(as HPHS is almost entirely white). Most of the boys wear jeans, khakis, polos, athletic shorts and t-shirts. The girls wear mostly oversizes t-shirts and shorts.
But this works both ways as well. I was seen differently just inside my family because we lived in Highland Park. The rest of my family all lived very comfortably in the Plano area, but since I was the "rich kid" in HP, I always was somewhat separated from the family. They would make up rumors about things I never said and did. Every "issue" I had they would relish in and it was quite sad. Luckily once I came back from college, and made my own way they all looked at me differently and have learned to respect me as my own person. Even at college it got to the point of just trying to tell people I was from North Dallas, rather then HP because of the looks and scoffs I would receive.
HP is a great community, and yes there are some people that are jackasses and racist and think they are higher than others because of their social status. MOST parents try and keep their kids as grounded as possible. Some of the wealthiest individuals I know drive older suburbans and live in modest houses for the size of their bank accounts. But when you are getting on a 15 seat private jet to fly out to your friend Jimmy's summer house in Nantucket, while others have never even been on a plane, it becomes difficult to not feel that you are in a different class. Especially when you're a young stupid teenager.
Last edited by bencronin04; 07-15-2014 at 01:03 PM..
My understanding is that Census numbers (American Community Surveys, actually) do ask for all income, which would include dividends/cap gains/interest/wage and salary/whatever (as well as tax-free items like muni income).
That said, we're talking median income, and PC income has a skewed distribution to the high end (check out the mean vs. median for household income). Yes, the surveys have margins of error for all the reasons you'd expect, but the census has some very sophisticated statistical modelling they use to take that into account. Still, remember that a value of "X" is really "X, plus-or-minus Y".
Last, as GreyDay notes, there's a big difference between "income" and "net worth". There are likely many families in PC that only take out as much income as they need to sustain their desired lifestyle, while allowing assets to appreciate as much as possible (and without recognizing gain or taxable income if possible). The family with 10 million in assets taking 200K in qualified dividends is in a much different situation than the family headed by a youngish doctor earning 400K annually but with 300K student debt and little net worth accumulated so far.
ETA- FYI, 2008-2012 American Community Survey data, Highland Park had a median household income of 213,194 and a mean household income of 302,248. University Park had a median of 164,273 and a mean of 240,975.
By contrast, Southlake has a median household income of 181,122 and a mean household income of 222,230. 55.5% of all SL households earn under 200K. Note the higher mean to median for PC compared to SL, reflecting the skew towards VERY high income households in PC.
I was aware of the distinction between income & net worth - mentioned it in my starting post.
I was only curious about the split in PC population between "family with 10 million in assets taking 200K in qualified dividends" category, versus the 'making mean income (350k+) with < 1 million in net assets' category.
Is it a more like a 90/10 split, or 70/30, 30/70 or 10/90 split?
I was aware of the distinction between income & net worth - mentioned it in my starting post.
I was only curious about the split in PC population between "family with 10 million in assets taking 200K in qualified dividends" category, versus the 'making mean income (350k+) with < 1 million in net assets' category.
Is it a more like a 90/10 split, or 70/30, 30/70 or 10/90 split?
You also need to factor in the students, and individuals that parents helped or purchased a house for them. I have a handful of old classmates that have houses in the PC area, not even making 6 figures.
I was aware of the distinction between income & net worth - mentioned it in my starting post.
I was only curious about the split in PC population between "family with 10 million in assets taking 200K in qualified dividends" category, versus the 'making mean income (350k+) with < 1 million in net assets' category.
Is it a more like a 90/10 split, or 70/30, 30/70 or 10/90 split?
Sorry, wasn't speaking entirely to you but more in general.
Re: the splits, that would be interesting to learn, but IIRC the Census numbers only look at income. I mean, we can probably assume it's a lot higher in PC than in SL if you look at median home prices in both, but anything more specific (like the splits you're talking about), doubt we can get anything like that.
Also, tying back to BenCronin's post, it sure seems as if there's a sizable percentage of kids in SL who like to go on about what they have (my kidlet has noticed this and told me about it, in elementary school no less). Don't know about PC, but suspect they downplay things a bit more and that there's a bit of the stereotypical "old money" vs. "new money" thing going on.
Which is getting far afield from the OP's inquiry, but it is interesting that even among "'rich' (predominantly white) families" there are differences in the way people discuss certain things or present themselves.
Sorry, wasn't speaking entirely to you but more in general.
Re: the splits, that would be interesting to learn, but IIRC the Census numbers only look at income. I mean, we can probably assume it's a lot higher in PC than in SL if you look at median home prices in both, but anything more specific (like the splits you're talking about), doubt we can get anything like that.
Also, tying back to BenCronin's post, it sure seems as if there's a sizable percentage of kids in SL who like to go on about what they have (my kidlet has noticed this and told me about it, in elementary school no less). Don't know about PC, but suspect they downplay things a bit more and that there's a bit of the stereotypical "old money" vs. "new money" thing going on.
Which is getting far afield from the OP's inquiry, but it is interesting that even among "'rich' (predominantly white) families" there are differences in the way people discuss certain things or present themselves.
Thanks. I was only interested in knowing the "wealth spread" in PC. For whatever reason, I was thinking it was 90/10 in the above; after the income data - being aware of all the mentioned caveats - I feel it is more like 50/50 or even 30/70, although one can never be sure.
"...No African Americans owned homes there until 2003, when mortgage officer Karen Watson purchased a house on ritzy Beverly Drive. "Guess who's coming to dinner—and staying for awhile?" wrote the local paper, Park Cities People. According to the 2010 census, Highland Park is 94.4 percent white (PDF). In 2005, Highland Park High School students celebrating "thug day" and "fiesta day" came to class dressed in Afro wigs and traditional Mexican dresses stuffed with pillows. (The previous year, some had celebrated "trailer trash day" by dressing as their teachers.)"
Quite frankly, growing up, I would hear and experience much worse than this. I grew up on a Caribbean island, and there, the minority are the Dominicans, who, much like undocumented Mexican immigrants, risk it all to make it to what they believe is the promised land. They are the ones who are made fun of, who if they make it big and move into nice homes people are incredulous that it happened, etc.
It would be hard to find a state or even a country, that doesn't label a subgroup as the minority and occasionally makes jokes at their expense. It would be hard to find a majority of people anywhere who never thinks things in their head that would be considered racist, or who never think in terms of generalizations about a group of people. And not just in the context of white/black. You could insert: obese people, Jews, Muslims, Chinese, Germans, women drivers, anything. There is always going to be a group of people who feel they are in control, and want to make themselves feel more powerful at the expense of others. This is nothing new nor news breaking...a story as old as time. And a reality around the world, not just in the Park Cities.
Having always lived in predominantly white areas since I moved to the US in the 80s, my goal is to show those around me that I am just like them, despite having a different color and a different culture. So far I feel it has worked. People invite us into their homes, and are happy to come into mine. In my 46 years I have learned that people usually fear and belittle what they do not know. Once that unknown element goes away, they wonder why they feared it in the first place.
Quite frankly, growing up, I would hear and experience much worse than this. I grew up on a Caribbean island, and there, the minority are the Dominicans, who, much like undocumented Mexican immigrants, risk it all to make it to what they believe is the promised land. They are the ones who are made fun of, who if they make it big and move into nice homes people are incredulous that it happened, etc.
It would be hard to find a state or even a country, that doesn't label a subgroup as the minority and occasionally makes jokes at their expense. It would be hard to find a majority of people anywhere who never thinks things in their head that would be considered racist, or who never think in terms of generalizations about a group of people. And not just in the context of white/black. You could insert: obese people, Jews, Muslims, Chinese, Germans, women drivers, anything. There is always going to be a group of people who feel they are in control, and want to make themselves feel more powerful at the expense of others. This is nothing new nor news breaking...a story as old as time. And a reality around the world, not just in the Park Cities.
Having always lived in predominantly white areas since I moved to the US in the 80s, my goal is to show those around me that I am just like them, despite having a different color and a different culture. So far I feel it has worked. People invite us into their homes, and are happy to come into mine. In my 46 years I have learned that people usually fear and belittle what they do not know. Once that unknown element goes away, they wonder why they feared it in the first place.
Some people just aren't going to like you for something you have no control over. And if they have those feelings, I'd rather they be open about it- just so I can plan my day.
My child attends the local school, has friends and plays on the street. I like being able to walk her 3 blocks to school some mornings. I keep my house together and lawn clean and wave to the neighbors- UP/HP is pretty much a non-event. I bought a home in an area I liked, with the best schools and get upset if my neighbors lag on home upkeep- because it affects my home's value as well. There's a confluence that occurs as we get older and move on in our careers. Middle-class values are just that, not Black, no White, not Asian values. Wanting a safe block, good schools and stable home value.
... We went to Russell Creek Park today and again, LOTS of people out playing, walking dogs, etc. we were the ONLY white family out there.... Unfortunately no one approached us with a hello or small talk, etc at either place. Can someone please educate me.
If I was not approached at a park or library by a stranger of any race, creed or nationality, i would have never given it a 2nd thought. If you felt unwelcome because none of the people at either place approached you to say hello, why didn't you approach anybody to say hello?
You're middle school, Schimple is 50% white, I think you'll feel fine once school starts and you're kids are making friends. My wife teaches in plano isd, it's a wonderful district, that's what attracts so many asians to Plano. Indians tend to stick to themselves unless they know you, I have great friends that are Indian from work....but they don't tend to come up and say hi to you. Honestly, that doesn't tend to happen much period in DFW though, just not as friendly and down home as people in Alabama. I think you'll find the diversity is right once your kids start school, we have plenty of friends in the area who are white. It'll be the type of diversity you were hoping for I think, Asian kids are great students, and they are friendlier and more gentle than most other races. Bullying is not near as severe in their demographic. I live 15 minutes away and I am white, I do live in Frisco, but I believe you'll get used to it and things will be fine. Even though Plano has big schools, they tend to have a tight community, so welcome to Plano I think you'll enjoy it.
Btw, one of the largest christmas neighborhood displays in DFW occurs every december near you off Ohio and Legacy. And legacy town center has a huge christmas tree with lots of lights there as well, in addition to a huge lights display in downtown frisco so don't worry about christmas. It's well celebrated in the area
Asian kids are great students, and they are friendlier and more gentle than most other races. Bullying is not near as severe in their demographic.
I hadn't thought of this before, but thinking about it, I agree.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
