Frisco ISD Students Continue to Excel on SAT Exam (Dallas: theatre, top school)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by VegasMan_72

No, you are the one who blows smoke by trying to discourage people. You are disingenuous and trust me your strategy is not working. Frisco's growth is a proof of that.

You don't see how the headline you wrote for this very thread - "Frisco students continue to EXCEL" - is the smoke & mirrors of which I speak? An accurate headline is "Frisco students continue to IMPROVE."

Your choice of the word "excel" implies that Frisco is a best in class district which simply isn't true. Highland Park continues to excel - it's had the top SAT average since people started keeping records. Frisco is improving. Big difference. And misleading.

Per the College Board, Frisco's average Reading score is in about the 62nd percentile for college bound students nationally; HP's average students is in the 78th percentile. Frisco's average math score is in the 63rd percentile, while HP's is in the 79th. I don't think a school is "excelling" when half the class is below the 62/63 percentile nationally. Whereas, half of HP's seniors are in the top 20% nationally.

[VegasMan_72]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

You don't see how the headline you wrote for this very thread - "Frisco students continue to EXCEL" - is the smoke & mirrors of which I speak? An accurate headline is "Frisco students continue to IMPROVE."

Your choice of the word "excel" implies that Frisco is a best in class district which simply isn't true. Highland Park continues to excel - it's had the top SAT average since people started keeping records. Frisco is improving. Big difference. And misleading.

Per the College Board, Frisco's average Reading score is in about the 62nd percentile for college bound students nationally; HP's average students is in the 78th percentile. Frisco's average math score is in the 63rd percentile, while HP's is in the 79th. I don't think a school is "excelling" when half the class is below the 62/63 percentile nationally. Whereas, half of HP's seniors are in the top 20% nationally.

You really have a chip on your shoulder. Keep up your anti Frisco rant, I'm enjoying it.

[synchronicity]

Oh for Pete's sake. Yet another thread along these lines.

Frisco is improving, which is good. Frisco is a good to very good school district. It's not a "great" school district - that title would include Plano, Carroll, Coppell and Highland Park, and if we're talking individual schools would include Pearce HS and most of its feeders in Richardson ISD, as well as Flower Mound HS and at a slightly lower level Marcus HS in Lewisville ISD. Lovejoy ISD has put up good metrics although that's another one that can start arguments. GCISD's schools are generally just outside of the top 10. This is solely looking at open enrollment publics, not privates or magnets.

Frisco's schools are the next tier down, in a general range with Allen, Hebron in Lewisville, Keller HS and feeders, and McKinney's schools. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but they're not at the top level. It is possible that they'll continue to improve and possibly reach that top tier.

If you want a newer home at a given price point and work north of Dallas (or don't mind a long commute), Frisco is a good choice. If you want an area with more history and are N/NE, then McKinney would be better. Allen has the One Giant High School (and of course, the football team). Keller is a good choice if you're closer to Ft. Worth (although I'm not a fan of Keller ISD for various reasons, I think it underperforms given the SES of the student body). The problem is that people speak of Frisco as if it were excellent, and as of now it's not.

[PlanoPolite]

All of my kids are going to Plano schools and only one is gifted but all of them are doing well. My mom is a special education teacher in Allen and according to her, no district serves those kids better than Plano. Is it a perfect district? No. Is it the best open enrollment public district in DFW? Without a doubt. I know because I work at KD and we get kids from all districts. Is Frisco a good district? Absolutely. Are they top tier? They are not.

[banal]

Something stinks.

I can't prove it but the district may be omitting low SAT scores when averaging the scores.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by banal

Something stinks.

I can't prove it but the district may be omitting low SAT scores when averaging the scores.

If a kid takes the SAT or ACT his numbers are counted. Barring oddball circumstances like cheating a school can't have scores removed from the scoring pool.

However, you've hit on something that people often miss. Each school's SAT and ACT participation rate explains much.

Within all of the better private schools around here and all of the North Dallas "Elite" privates, I hate that term BTW, nearly everyone takes either the SAT or ACT every year - most take both at least once. I know my son's Sr. year at Jesuit everyone took the SAT and the same my daughter's Sr. year at Ursuline. Participation rates at St. Marks, Hockaday, Cistercian, ESD, Parish and Greenhill are all right at 100% as well.

Highland Park encourages every kid without special needs, and frankly some with special needs, to take the SAT. Every year HP's test participation rate is 96, 97, 98, 99 or 100%.

I haven't asked them in a couple of years but Plano West's test participation rate has been around 70% - which is very high for a large high school. If anyone has fresher numbers please post them.

At some DISD schools the participation rate is well below 50%.

I don't know about Frisco's rates but I'd bet they are close to Plano's.

At my high school, in another state, teachers flat out asked many kids to not take the SAT. Even then it was obvious why.

All of this makes the scores at HP even more impressive.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by EDS_

If a kid takes the SAT or ACT his numbers are counted. Barring oddball circumstances like cheating a school can't have scores removed from the scoring pool.

However, you've hit on something that people often miss. Each school's SAT and ACT participation rate explains much.

Within all of the better private schools around here and all of the North Dallas "Elite" privates, I hate that term BTW, nearly everyone takes either the SAT or ACT every year - most take both at least once. I know my son's Sr. year at Jesuit everyone took the SAT and the same my daughter's Sr. year at Ursuline. Participation rates at St. Marks, Hockaday, Cistercian, ESD, Parish and Greenhill are all right at 100% as well.

Highland Park encourages every kid without special needs, and frankly some with special needs, to take the SAT. Every year HP's test participation rate is 96, 97, 98, 99 or 100%.

I haven't asked them in a couple of years but Plano West's test participation rate has been around 70% - which is very high for a large high school. If anyone has fresher numbers please post them.

At some DISD schools the participation rate is well below 50%.

I don't know about Frisco's rates but I'd bet they are close to Plano's.

At my high school, in another state, teachers flat out asked many kids to not take the SAT. Even then it was obvious why.

All of this makes the scores at HP even more impressive.

Good points about participation. I know as of 2 years ago, Frisco ISD dictated which AP students were "invited" to take the College Board AP Exam in order to ensure the district's pass rate was high. Highland Park allows every student - even those not enrolled in AP classes - to take AP exams if they wish. They will even administer AP exams for AP classes not taught at HP. Again, makes HP's 65% pass rate more impressive than the "rigged" 80%+ rate at many suburban districts.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by VegasMan_72

You really have a chip on your shoulder. Keep up your anti Frisco rant, I'm enjoying it.

With respect TC-80's comments in this thread are mostly unassailable. You made what I would consider and minor overstatement in your opening post..........there is a gap between local schools with demonstrably excellent SAT results and Frisco schools.

Noting that sort of thing is in no way running Frisco's schools down. Many Frisco students can and do thrive and go off to college and dominate. The rub is at the margins Plano schools do a bit more of the same ditto HP, Southlake etc.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Good points about participation. I know as of 2 years ago, Frisco ISD dictated which AP students were "invited" to take the College Board AP Exam in order to ensure the district's pass rate was high. Highland Park allows every student - even those not enrolled in AP classes - to take AP exams if they wish. They will even administer AP exams for AP classes not taught at HP. Again, makes HP's 65% pass rate more impressive than the "rigged" 80%+ rate at many suburban districts.

The whole AP thing drives me a little nuts. And you are right.........save the "banned books" fiasco HP is the model regarding how to run a public school. Right at 95% of kids are college ready in both math/science and reading for an example. HP spends about the state average per kid as well.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by EDS_

However, you've hit on something that people often miss. Each school's SAT and ACT participation rate explains much.

Within all of the better private schools around here and all of the North Dallas "Elite" privates, I hate that term BTW, nearly everyone takes either the SAT or ACT every year - most take both at least once. I know my son's Sr. year at Jesuit everyone took the SAT and the same my daughter's Sr. year at Ursuline. Participation rates at St. Marks, Hockaday, Cistercian, ESD, Parish and Greenhill are all right at 100% as well.

Highland Park encourages every kid without special needs, and frankly some with special needs, to take the SAT. Every year HP's test participation rate is 96, 97, 98, 99 or 100%.

I haven't asked them in a couple of years but Plano West's test participation rate has been around 70% - which is very high for a large high school. If anyone has fresher numbers please post them.

At some DISD schools the participation rate is well below 50%.

I don't know about Frisco's rates but I'd bet they are close to Plano's.

You knew I had these in spreadsheets, right? These numbers are from the 2011-12 school year, so they're a little dated, but unless I'm messing up, I've got Plano West's SAT participation rate at 87.3%, Plano Sr. at 78.2%, and Plano East at 70.6%.

HPHS was at 94.4%, Carroll Sr. at 93.4%, Coppell at 85.7%. I wouldn't be surprised if almost everyone at HPHS who didn't take the SAT took the ACT instead. Flower Mound was 81.8%, Pearce 76.7%. Marcus 87.1%. Oh Colleyville was 89%, and Grapevine somewhere in the mid 80's.

As for Frisco schools - Centennial was 67.9%. Frisco about 65%. Liberty 68.7%, Wakeland 72.3%.

McKinney, which had similar test results to Frisco, had 80.8% for Boyd, 76.8% for McKinney and 77.3% for North.

So, the very top schools generally were upper 80's to low 90's in participation rates, the schools a tier below that were upper 70's to just over 80.

But Frisco schools were right around 70%.

Again, I haven't checked the latest numbers on this metric. Frisco may be improving participation rates as well as total scores. But at a glance, they not only trail to top tier in averages, but they've been trailing their peers in particpation rate. Again, Frisco is still better than the vast majority of ISDs...but they should not be considered "elite" or whatever term one reserves for the very best public districts. As of now one can easily argue that McKinney is a better overall district, and that district does not have nearly as many outspoken proponents (make no mistake, McKinney is fine district that puts up very good results, but you don't hear anyone saying it's as good as Plano).