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Old 01-19-2015, 02:55 PM
 
272 posts, read 712,210 times
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Others on this thread have given great advice on the med school specific questions. I wanted to weigh in to highlight that if merit scholarship funding for undergraduate school is a significant part of the plan for paying for the cost of undergraduate school and medical school, DO NOT plan to attend community college for two years and then transfer.

Most of the substantial merit scholarship are available only to entering freshmen. Schools that have full tuition + offers available to outstanding freshmen often offer a measly $1000 (or nothing) to similarly qualified transfer students. With a 33 ACT there are many schools that will put significant merit money on the table -- enough to more than outweigh the money saved by living at home and attending community college during the first two years and then transferring having to pay almost full freight for the remaining two years.

Living at home and attending community college is really only a good cost saving strategy for students whose stats do not qualify them for the big dollar merit awards at some of the schools mentioned or for those whose target transfer school is one that doesn't offer many merit awards. Those students who do qualify big dollar merit awards and intend to transfer to a school that rewards high achievement in high school with merit money might actually do themselves a financial disservice going the community college route and then transferring.

Note the UT Austin is not one of the schools that will likely offer significant merit for a 33 ACT. UT Austin offers very little in the way of merit except to the real superstar 40 Acres kids and loses great students every year to A&M, Baylor, SMU, Ole Miss, Alabama and a host of other schools that will reward students for their hard work and achievement in high school. If UT Austin is the target transfer school, then community college to UT Austin might be financially preferable, though for all the reasons discussed above such a plan is probably a bad idea for most students hoping to attend medical school and/or for students looking for a "typical" college experience.
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Old 01-19-2015, 03:03 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 4,813,434 times
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Quote:
Doesn't UTD have a oretty strong premed program or am I remembering something else?
Keep in mind Pre-Med isn't a program or degree. It just means you are taking classes required for med school admission.

It doesn't really matter where you go for undergrad as long as you have the scores and resume to get into a med school. Really. Spend as little money as possible doing it, though!
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:23 PM
 
11 posts, read 21,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Lots of coffee sorry for the rambling.....


Much within your two previous posts is right on a lot though is little more than wishful thinking mixed with terrible game theory.
Let me say this again: I was on the Hopkins med admissions committee for 6 years while I was completing my MD/PhD degree. I have a pretty good idea as to what adcoms care about and what they don't care about.


Quote:
1. I'm looking at a list where my son's medical school cohorts earned their degrees. For brevity I'm leaving out a number of great universities.

Austin College, Baylor, BYU, Brown, Carnegie Mellon, City Univ. NY, CUNY (the grad school I think), Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Georgetown, Hofstra, John Hopkins, MIT, NYU, SMU, Southwestern Univ., Texas A&M, UT-Austin, UT-Dallas, Trinity, TCU, US Air Force Academy, US Military Academy, Univ. Chicago, UNC, Penn, UVA, Vandy, Washington University (St. Louis), Wellesley, Notre Dame, Rice, Yale.

A highly disproportionate number of the total come from Baylor, UT-Austin, Texas A&M, and Rice.

You can bet your bottom dollar that no more than a kid or two from that list took more than a few courses from a community college/JUCO.
You are confusing causation with correlation. Over half of the med students at my school went to Ivy League universities. But going to the Ivies didnt get them into med school -- they would have gotten in regardless of where they went to college. It just so happens that the Ivies get a disproportionate amount of talent.

I know this for a fact because we actually blinded reviewers to undergrad institution for a year and compared statistics. The year that we blinded undergrad institution resulted in no significant difference in admission percentages based on college.

Quote:
2. Baylor U. does not have a combo program with Baylor Medicine and hasn't for many years.
This is incorrect.

Baylor University || Prehealth Programs || Baylor<sup>2</sup> Medical Track


Quote:
4. The OP's kiddo logged a 33 ACT score. That's a composite 99 percentile score, she has a very good chance to earn a significant scholarship to a place like Baylor. Maybe Rice.
Maybe so, but it is still better to take the most money possible and pay the lowest tuition/fees possible and usually that is at a "less prestigious" school.


Quote:
5. If the OP and family are white or Asian kiddo has virtually no chance to get into a top tier allopathic medical school with an MCAT below 30/31 and grades below 3.70. My son's room-mate (3.7+, 32 MCAT) couldn't get an interview at any Texas school - excepting UNT's DO school and they didn't accept him. He starts at an out of state DO school Fall 2016 after years of scrambling.

You might not get into an "elite" medical school, but if you apply to a broad range of allopathic programs with those stats and still can't get in, then there is a huge red flag on your application (poor interview, poor letters of rec, disciplinary action in college, etc)

Quote:
7. DOs are already being squeezed come match day (I'd guess that's almost 100% due to Step 1 scores). That's going to get worse not better.
True but if your goal is to become a doctor and you aren't dead set on a particular specialty, then there's nothing wrong with going the DO route.

Going to a DO school is a lot better than going to a foreign med school.

Quote:
8. So far a direct comparison between CCs and 4 year programs. My son took 5 bio. and chemistry classes via dual credit, all from Brookhaven IIRC, while he was in high school. Via advice from several sources including his high school guidance office he re-took all of those classes at Baylor. He has said there was simply no comparison between the degree of difficulty and overall quality of instruction. Especially so far as lab lectures and labs are concerned. That's less a slam on CCs and more of statement of obvious reality. A big university will have more and better staff, much more useful physical plant (the bio. building at Baylor for example), more secondary resources (visiting docs, researchers, and hard research going on all the time, more and better lab equipment, much higher calibre fellow students etc.).

9. I see one more problem with the CC route. Think of the double belly blow of leaving say Collin College for UT and being behind and immediately having to begin MCAT prep.

10. So far as the "ZERO" advantage claim between Rice/Baylor/UT Austin over UNT claim.......there are something like 120/125 students in my son's class from UT, A&M, Baylor and Rice......there is 1 non-TAMS kid from UNT.

I'm talking only about admissions to med school. Does Rice have better research options CC or a lower tier 4 year school? Sure. But if your goal is to get into a medical school, then those advantages aren't worth the extra thousands you would take out in loans or pay up front.

If you can get into Rice for the same cost to you as a less expensive, lower prestige school, then by all means go to Rice. I'm simply saying that the advantages that Rice carries aren't worth the extra cost in terms of medical school admissions.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:36 PM
 
11 posts, read 21,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mSooner View Post
Keep in mind Pre-Med isn't a program or degree. It just means you are taking classes required for med school admission.

It doesn't really matter where you go for undergrad as long as you have the scores and resume to get into a med school. Really. Spend as little money as possible doing it, though!
This is the correct answer.

People mistakenly look at med school matriculant lists, see a bunch of top tier colleges on there, and assume that going to Harvard helped them get into med school. But again, those people would have gotten into med school regardless of where they went for undergrad.

It's about the person, not the college.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,204 posts, read 49,740,662 times
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What's wrong with UT Austin?
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:39 PM
 
205 posts, read 183,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
What's wrong with UT Austin?
Nothing. \m/
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:52 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove2 View Post
Let me say this again: I was on the Hopkins med admissions committee for 6 years while I was completing my MD/PhD degree. I have a pretty good idea as to what adcoms care about and what they don't care about.




You are confusing causation with correlation. Over half of the med students at my school went to Ivy League universities. But going to the Ivies didnt get them into med school -- they would have gotten in regardless of where they went to college. It just so happens that the Ivies get a disproportionate amount of talent.

I know this for a fact because we actually blinded reviewers to undergrad institution for a year and compared statistics. The year that we blinded undergrad institution resulted in no significant difference in admission percentages based on college.



This is incorrect.

Baylor University || Prehealth Programs || Baylor<sup>2</sup> Medical Track




Maybe so, but it is still better to take the most money possible and pay the lowest tuition/fees possible and usually that is at a "less prestigious" school.





You might not get into an "elite" medical school, but if you apply to a broad range of allopathic programs with those stats and still can't get in, then there is a huge red flag on your application (poor interview, poor letters of rec, disciplinary action in college, etc)



True but if your goal is to become a doctor and you aren't dead set on a particular specialty, then there's nothing wrong with going the DO route.

Going to a DO school is a lot better than going to a foreign med school.




I'm talking only about admissions to med school. Does Rice have better research options CC or a lower tier 4 year school? Sure. But if your goal is to get into a medical school, then those advantages aren't worth the extra thousands you would take out in loans or pay up front.

If you can get into Rice for the same cost to you as a less expensive, lower prestige school, then by all means go to Rice. I'm simply saying that the advantages that Rice carries aren't worth the extra cost in terms of medical school admissions.


1. I acknowledge your credentials and experience.

2. I'm not confusing anything, however, simply looking at all the evidence I can find. The weakness in your argument is the claim that all of the students you mention would have gained admittance into medical school regardless of where they attended undergrad. Throughout all of American education we see that kids who are surrounded by very good students in high expectation environments have the best chance to succeed as measured by objective metrics.

I'm not surprised that your blind test had the results it did. Frankly, I'm not sure why you believe the results buttress your point.

3. I'm not incorrect about combo programs we have a verbiage disagreement. Baylor2, The program at SLU and other similar arrangement are automatic admission programs. I've heard the term combo program in reference to those in which a student takes 60/70 undergrad hours and then goes to medical school without a BS.

4. I'm swayed by arguments that encourage smart economy with money. I'm much less swayed if said economy dims the ultimate goal.

5. If your argument was correct lots of people would be doing as you suggest as large markets choice markets tend to be economically rational over time. I can find no evidence that more than few percent of medical students and current doctors went the CC/JUCO - comprehensive university - medical school route.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:55 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove2 View Post
This is the correct answer.

People mistakenly look at med school matriculant lists, see a bunch of top tier colleges on there, and assume that going to Harvard helped them get into med school. But again, those people would have gotten into med school regardless of where they went for undergrad.

It's about the person, not the college.
That poster's spouse attend a large well respected biology/premed program within a very large university.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:07 PM
 
76 posts, read 149,743 times
Reputation: 18
UT Dallas has seven Year BS/MD program. What is the actual requirement to get into this program? The one on their website is just a minimum requirement but I have heard that it is very competitive.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:29 PM
 
655 posts, read 753,755 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by FolkArtsy View Post
My SD is in 11th grade and current ranking is in 12% in a Plano school with 4.2 GPA and 33 ACT. She wants to go in medicine, which one would be a better choice for such a student?
You might look into Austin College in Sherman. Their acceptance rate for medical school is extremely high. With those stats, she'd be a candidate for a significant scholarship. I'd also recommend Baylor, especially since they award scholarships based on academic merit, and with a 33, she would qualify for a fairly sizable one. I went to SMU and would recommend it more for a business track, or possibly law.
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