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Old 03-27-2017, 05:29 PM
 
2,471 posts, read 1,486,570 times
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What he said with emphasis on where SHE wants to go, not where you want her to go. College is once a lifetime experience.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:33 PM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mcninja View Post
If she's doing MD/PhD, then she should go whereever she wants. Most medical schools let the MD/PhDs go for free (or offer a stipend on top). No kidding, it's a free ride, but it takes 7 years instead of 4 before you start residency.

Beyond that, once you're done literally nobody cares where you go to medical school. And they care even less where you went to college.
So go where they have good advisors, and good support. You can even overcome that in a pinch. But doing college at a place with a medical school does let you work in those labs and give you facetime/extra bonus points when it comes time to apply for medical school.
What?
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Corpus Christi
279 posts, read 424,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
What?
Which part are you questioning?
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Old 03-28-2017, 09:56 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mcninja View Post
If she's doing MD/PhD, then she should go whereever she wants. Most medical schools let the MD/PhDs go for free (or offer a stipend on top). No kidding, it's a free ride, but it takes 7 years instead of 4 before you start residency.

Beyond that, once you're done literally nobody cares where you go to medical school. And they care even less where you went to college.
So go where they have good advisors, and good support. You can even overcome that in a pinch. But doing college at a place with a medical school does let you work in those labs and give you facetime/extra bonus points when it comes time to apply for medical school.
Sorry I meant to ask if you believe the OP's kid should attend wherever she wants in the broad sense or if you mean she should attend wherever she wants from her short list of Baylor, UT and Arkansas Honors?
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Corpus Christi
279 posts, read 424,940 times
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In the broadest sense possible. If she only is considering BU,UT, and UA, then pick from them. But feel free to pick from any school. Just realize that going somewhere with a medical school can give you a leg up, especially if you can start working in a lab during undergrad.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:18 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Mcninja View Post
In the broadest sense possible. If she only is considering BU,UT, and UA, then pick from them. But feel free to pick from any school. Just realize that going somewhere with a medical school can give you a leg up, especially if you can start working in a lab during undergrad.
Thanks.
I believe the path the young lady in question is considering requires a fairly specific plan or at least an understanding of the odds.

The young lady needs to know that no where near all MD/Ph.D students receive tuition and stipend for both MD and Ph.D pursuits. The formal programs that offer both benefits are small and absurdly competative. The NIH's Medical Scientist Training Program for example helps fund fewer than 200 people per year. Many MD/Ph.Ds complete their Ph.D in advance of medical school. Some like my kid may do - complete their Ph.D after medical school. And still others after residency.

MD/Ph.Ds overwhelmingly gravitate towards research and academia within that context the strength of school brands, even undergrad, matters a little but the track record and rigor of particular programs matters a lot. It's not by accident that places like UT Austin, Rice, A&M and Baylor crank out a lot of rising doctors. IMO it's due to the fact that a 3.8-4.0 student from Rice BS-Bio is more likely to make a higher MCAT score than a kid from Angelo State with a 3.8-4.0 BS-Bio. simply because Rice's program is more demanding. FWIIW UTSW's medical school graduating class this year has roughly 30 Rice grads.

If the OP's kid wants to compete for one of those NIH scholarship/stipend awards she's going to be up against a field of people with 3.9-4.0 GPAs and 38-45 MCAT (old scale) scores.
A. IMO she's more likely to get to those bonafides attending a known meat-grinder undergraduate program.
B. Assuming she's tied with 30 other people in bonafides the perceived quality of her undergrad choice may be a tie breaker.
B1. One of my son's UTSW buddies earned a spot in a highly coveted UTSW residency so did two other UTSW students out of a total of 8 (may have been 9) spots for next year. The known quantity thing and associations really do matter.

Sorry for the scatter shooting and the typos - I left my glasses at home.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:08 PM
 
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All,

Thanks for all of the sound advice. Here's an update...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
My son is a Baylor grad. after a quick debrief over dinner last night he recommended before your daughter makes a full commitment to UofA or anyplace consider emailing one or both of these people at Baylor......

The only risk is they say, "can't help you" and they don't help her and her 1/2 offer stands and she probably goes to Arkansas.
She did reach out to Baylor and got some nice replies. No additional money yet, but she did get into the inaugural Science Research Fellows major which gives some of the same perks as a UArk Honors Fellow, but not any additional scholarship - Baylor University ||Science and Health Living Learning Center || Science Research Fellows

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
It's not by accident that places like UT Austin, Rice, A&M and Baylor crank out a lot of rising doctors.
I know you said you thought UArk Honors would be a good path and you are responding to the MD/PhD scholarship expectations. She is not expecting to get the scholarships for MD/PhD (part of her plan is to save money now to pay for med school later). With that said, she is a little worried about UArk's lack of prestige as her Ivy-bound friends are looking down on her choice. As a Fellow she is going to get a faculty mentor, freshman research, study abroad, etc. in an Honors College that ranks in the top 20 nationally and boats a 90+% med school acceptance rate (they have current MD/PhDs at UTSW, Brown, etc. and kids doing summer research at Harvard, etc.). She also likes that pretty much every kid in the Honors College is pre-something or other.

The funny thing is that UArk is now about 50% Texas kids with many in the DFW area heading there, but for some reason it is still Arkansas and not Texas.

Anyway, she has a couple more days to decide, but my guess is that she is still UArk bound with the Honors College equalizing the prestige issue, being able to save her money for med school, and just a good feel that she clicks with the university.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:02 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_long View Post
All,

Thanks for all of the sound advice. Here's an update...



She did reach out to Baylor and got some nice replies. No additional money yet, but she did get into the inaugural Science Research Fellows major which gives some of the same perks as a UArk Honors Fellow, but not any additional scholarship - Baylor University ||Science and Health Living Learning Center || Science Research Fellows



I know you said you thought UArk Honors would be a good path and you are responding to the MD/PhD scholarship expectations. She is not expecting to get the scholarships for MD/PhD (part of her plan is to save money now to pay for med school later). With that said, she is a little worried about UArk's lack of prestige as her Ivy-bound friends are looking down on her choice. As a Fellow she is going to get a faculty mentor, freshman research, study abroad, etc. in an Honors College that ranks in the top 20 nationally and boats a 90+% med school acceptance rate (they have current MD/PhDs at UTSW, Brown, etc. and kids doing summer research at Harvard, etc.). She also likes that pretty much every kid in the Honors College is pre-something or other.

The funny thing is that UArk is now about 50% Texas kids with many in the DFW area heading there, but for some reason it is still Arkansas and not Texas.

Anyway, she has a couple more days to decide, but my guess is that she is still UArk bound with the Honors College equalizing the prestige issue, being able to save her money for med school, and just a good feel that she clicks with the university.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
Keep in mind she is wrestling with what are really good problems to have.

1). Given her purposes and circumstances IMO the differences between UofA and Baylor are minimal. If the money situation at UofA makes more sense she should go there.
1.1). She should ignore any noise about going to Harvard, Brown, Stanford etc. if she/you'd have to pay for it. I'll spare you the numbers but our son was accepted to Brown which BTW has a phenomenal suite of premedical track degrees. Anyway, we figured out that with his scholarship to Baylor we could send him to Baylor, UTSW or BCOM, and have money left over to help him open a practice or set up shop somewhere for what an undergrad degree at Brown would have cost. That was a very easy decision.
2). Back to money when she earns acceptance into a medical school she will be able to borrow whatever she needs to get through. It'll be nice if she can maintain a nest egg to defray some costs but likely she will need to borrow money and it will be easy for her to do so.
3). Generally speaking Ph.D programs are more or less free with a stipend. Just keep that in mind for planning purposes. However, outside a few programs mentioned above and some private placement scholarships and whatnot medical school is not free.
4). It's a discussion for another time but all of Texas the kids on scholarship at UofA Honors, OU Honors, Oklahoma State, Alabama etc. point a bright red laser beam at the negative consequences of our state's automatic admission rules and to a lesser degree how our bigger state schools allocate merit based money. It boggles the mind that we have kids who can't get into particular programs at our large universities at all but are able to earn scholarships into similar programs at places a like Alabama.

IMO maintaining Texas residency is really important. Texas has a lot of really excellent medical school slots and in state tuition rates at these schools are scorching good deals. Further, many of these schools offer bundled MD/Ph.D programs.

Best of luck!
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Corpus Christi
279 posts, read 424,940 times
Reputation: 470
Agree with the above.
When I advise current undergraduates, the two biggest questions are intended field (if they know it), and cost.
While there is an argument that it's easier to get a good residency out of BCM than UA, it's not an absolute. I went to a directional state school, and a directional state residency (different states). And yet after graduation, not a single person has ever asked where I went to for either. It literally doesn't matter.
However, graduating with $300,000 debt will definitely skew your choice of where you want to work, and may be an insurmountable hole to climb out of if you do primary care, especially with PSLF on the chopping block with the ACA.
The only thing I wish I could do over would be to go to a medical school with an affiliated residency in what I do now. Of course, neither of my acceptances had it at the time, but I would have applied more broadly.
Loans are easy to get, but much harder to pay off at today's high rates.
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