this post will be long, but this is an important decision
You have received some good advice and a little bit of not so good advice in my opinion so far
just to clarify things UT is UT Austin.....UTA is UT Arlington
so not exactly sure which one she is interested in, but at first it seemed it was UT Arlington now it seems it is UT (Austin)
Aggie972 really touched on something that I feel is CRITICAL that most parents do not want to even consider much less give any amount of weight to in their consideration and that is "college experience".....in my opinion this is the single biggest mistake that is made in college choices and especially the biggest mistake that a parent can (or does) make when they attempt to guide their kid towards a college
Simply put if they are not happy where they choose their grades will suffer period end of story
your answer to Aggie972 "not interested in A&M "for some reason"" tells me that NOW is a time when you as a parent need to have a real evaluation of what type of kid you have raised and a real review of their clique of friends and what they are like socially......to be clear there is no "right or wrong" answer except the result of not evaluating that
realistically relative to also having a
realistic evaluation of the various options available to her (in the case of your daughter from all you have stated she is in the enviable position of having MANY)
so lets go over what we do know.....she goes to a LARGE school, has taken several AP classes and makes very good grades overall, but I will ASSUME that you are not a massively overbearing parent and thus in spite of the fact that your daughter has a 4.2 GPA and pulled a 33 ACT she is only in the top 12% of her HS class (and again "only" being relative)......I would ASSUME there are a lot of kids WITH overbearing parents at her school that are in that "magical" (unfortunately in Texas) top 10% that could not find their way out of a 5 sided box if they were placed in there facing the closed end and the open end was behind them......turn around and walk out dummy was not in the textbook WHO KNEW!
really the only public school in Texas your daughter is not basically a lock for is UT and even then there is probably a chance she could get in (that is a really good ACT score)
of the list offered so far I would see Baylor as the only real choice for her right now based on the general assumptions I am making from the information offered......the important part here is not if I am right or wrong about my assumptions, but that you as a parent start the process of helping yourself and her evaluate why she is not interested in some of the schools mentioned so far and why some of the schools so far would not be a good fit for her
from all I am reading here I would cross UNT off the list because it is not going to be a challenge for her and because of some of the assumptions made based on her current choices and her non-choices (and on first hand knowledge as well of the university)
while "cheaper option" is usually a very good thing to consider in this case there is a very nice college fund available and I will again ASSUME that there is a decent parental income involved as well since the statement was made "financial aid not available" and again a large college fund generally is not made with very low income levels unless parents are extremely prudent over a long term period.....so again I commend you on that as a parent
but the reality is what is "cheaper option".......well in this case almost every public school in Texas is going to run the same basic tuition and fees and of the ones you have specifically listed UTD is actually far and away the highest public school tuition in Texas
in 2013 for all public universities in Texas the average tuition and fees for UTD were $11,592.....the next highest was UT $9,79......this is directly from the THECB website
sure you can get down to $5,468 at Texas A&M-Texarkana or $4,146at Sul Ross Rio Grande College (not even Sul Ross in Apline)......but really
if you are looking at all of the major state universities with the exception of UTD you are looking at the difference of about $1,000 so that should really be a non-factor especially considering the known financial information and the choice of major
4Movingeast again talks about missing out on "college life".......also mentions UTD.....I personally feel that UTD is a very good university and a very good all around university.....but unfortunately it is in the middle of a "college life" wasteland and while UTD has attempted to do all they can to correct that the unfortunate reality is with the university owning so much of the land surrounding the actual physical campus and with the TAMU Experiment Station on one side and it will be difficult for them to ever get that going in a meaningful way.....UTSA has similar issues (as does the new UC Merced)......just something that is difficult to make happen at a new campus (and all mentioned are new in fact very new in terms of USA universities)
so with that in mind unless you and her swing by UTD several times for a visit at many times of the day and night (you should live very close) and somehow what you see appeals to her and with the tuition in mind (as a small factor) I would scratch UTD off the list
UTA (Arlington) also has a similar "college life" issue as well and they are working on it and the only thing they have better is actual available surrounding environments (in some cases) to work with and if they knock more down and build right even better......but again I think you meant UT Austin to start and you have said UTA is a non-starter so next
EDS offers some good info and some good choices.....but a couple of things....TAMS is a major detraction for considering UNT unless you specifically like to take all of your hard (hard as in rigid not as in difficult although they are often difficult) and physical sciences classes at your UNIVERSITY in a class filled with high school kiddies......it sucks don't do it.....most of the non-hard and physical science (as opposed to soft and social sciences) and non-engineering students at UNT (which makes up the vast bulk of their enrollment) take special dumbed down hard and physical sciences classes (like Chem, Bio, Math and Physics) instead of the regular ones that students at most universities take and since many of the TAMS children are in fact using their high school (at college) experience to get ahead for 2 years when they transfer to a "good university" as they will say that means you as a hard/physical science major get the joy of classes half or more filled with HS kiddos!!!!
and really the D.O. school in Fort Worth is an entirely separate institution (lust like UTD and UTSW) and there is little meaningful collaboration and no special admissions for going to UNT to the D.O. school and unless one wants to be a D.O. instead of an MD well there is that too......not to mention the system and all their institution have leadership issues and the D.O. school has an issue with the discussion of a possible (although doubtful) MD program addition that is further upsetting the faculty and has helped lead to some of the leadership issues.....GO ELSEWHERE FORREST!!!
Trinity, SMU, TCU, Austin College all fine choices if she feels she would fit in.....some pretty big differences in university size though even between private schools
St. Edwards is a nice school, but there is another issue that comes into play with "cost" and that is cost of living.....Austin is extremely expensive to live in as far as housing and even more so anywhere close to any of the universities so unless one is going to live on campus all 4 years that has to be a factor
and that gets us to another quick issue.......it is in my opinion when choosing to live off campus an absolute necessity to go ahead and pay the price to live in a place where you have a very easy walk and or bike ride (and by that I mean EASY) to campus......all of the larger and many of the medium state universities in Texas and even some of the private ones have MAJOR parking issues.....UT has far and away the most functional shuttle system and Texas A&M has a good one as well, but after that you might as well consider the rest have nothing because what they have is about as good as nothing....PAY THE PRICE and stop/don't wasting potential HOURS (as in possibly 2 a day) getting to and from campus and more importantly finding a place to park that does not require a long walk, bike ride or shuttle wait....is is simply not worth it
so with the cost of living in mind and with the private school tuition I would say there are better choices than St. Edwards unless again after a through visit she really likes it.....Southwestern in Georgetown would have a batter rep and probably a lower cost of living as well and an easier time getting to and from campus
Texas Tech.....is she does not like A&M then she might not like Texas Tech as well......both have a great college atmosphere, they are more similar than dissimilar and really the difference is Tech has become a bit more "frat" oriented (like UT can be) VS A&M and Tech is not quite so massive in student population and the main campus is much more confined/restricted to a manageable walking between classes.....A&M is just out of control in that aspect
both will have the same class sizes and overall atmosphere in the classes and the areas around/near campus will be similar......Tech will have a lower off campus cost of living though by a decent amount especially for that critical "near campus" housing as I have mentioned
Collin County (ah the Quad Cs) is a non-starter IMO and here is why
if your daughter was going to be a psych, socio, Ed, history, English and on and on and on major including engineering and many others I would agree that the concept of saving money while at home (or not at home) and going to community college is a very very good idea with a lot of merit.....I have personally had some of the best professors I have ever had at any school at community colleges and of course some of the worst as well......and I have had HORRID ones at major respected universities......especially for the dreaded "weed out" intro/freshman hard and physical sciences classes community colleges will generally NOT have a class of 200 taught by a "professor" with 4 TAs to "help"......this can be a "good".......also for MOST majors and at most universities (especially state ones in Texas with the exception of UT especially and A&M somewhat) it is actually easier to transfer in with 30 or 60 hours than to gain freshman admissions
so if you were wanting to be an engineer and you made 3 Cs in some "difficult classes" and some As in some "easier classes" well there is generally not a hard cap on engineering enrollments (with some exceptions) and as long as you meet the university (and sometimes the college of engineering or specific engineering department) you are in!!!......you are not weighed against all available applicants generally (UT the exception for sure) you just meet the needed metrics and required courses and hours and you make it or you don't
with medical school of course you are going to be judged against all 4 years and while I will agree (to a slight degree) with those that say "a 4.0 from UTEP or UTSA and a great MCAT score is like a 4.0 from UT" (especially with professor recommendations ect) the issues I have with specifically doing the 2 years at CC for MEDICAL SCHOOL are twofold
1. if you go directly to a 4 year school and say you pull a C in your first year chem class that is not good.......but you have 3 more years of "post-req" classes to get it together and make As and then you have somewhat of a meaningful argument that you made a mistake your first year and got it together in subsequent classes that built on that first class and proved that you were able to do the work
now if you go to CC for two years and you make a C to start.....well can you even get into a specific desired university pre-med program?......better KNOW that up front....AND if you go to CC and get all As and then transfer as a junior and pull a C what is your story then and you only have one more year to prove you can make that mistake up and that goes into #2
2. it is hard enough to get settled into college as it is for all the obvious reasons.....the last thing I would tell anyone to do that is looking at med school is to go through a transition 2 years into the 4 year COMPETITION to get into limited medical school slots
in addition to worrying about making the grades you have concerns with transfer requirements, application deadlines, does your desired university take all transfers that apply to a pre-med program or just a particular number, common course numbering/specific courses transferring and then the total beat down of having to pack up and MOVE
what if you HATE the university you transfer to....sure you only have two years left, but two years somewhere you hate is a LONG two years......it would be MUCH better to find that out freshman year along with any potential "I hate this place freshman level C grade" that you might slip up and make.....VS again the "damn I am beat down from moving and I hate this place and made a C in a JR level course MAJOR mistake"
with the mentioned available resources and ASSUMED parental income and the known grades there is just no reason at all to add in the major burden of transfer concerns and all that entails to a medical school aspiration.....JUST FLAT NOT WORTH IT
again finances should always be a consideration, but your daughter has done well and you have done well in your college planning.....with MED SCHOOL aspirations now is not the time to go cheap for the sake of going cheap......you would do better to go to A&M-Texarkana or Tarleton or any 4 year school where she feels she really belongs and concentrating on fitting in and making grades VS the total Awhip of concerning yourself with transferring from CC into a pre-med program and then 2 years later almost certainly moving again for medical school.....this is a medical school aspiration not traveling road show
find the RIGHT school, find the RIGHT housing arrangement and make the grades instead of continuing to toss in unknowns and potential issues to a hard enough goal as it is
now back to some potential schools
so in post #13 here is what I see.....your daughter has no real clarity on why she likes potential schools other than she is looking at the image of getting accepted there.......this is NOT a judgement on her it is VERY common......VERY common and to a degree it can matter.....but not necessarily for her because as pointed out getting into medical school is an evaluation made by fellow educators.....not by private employers so while image and prestige of a school matters to a degree that will not come close to overcoming lesser grades......it is not like she is looking at Columbia School of Journalism VS UNT and reputation and professor insider leads will matter
one could think well she does not like A&M because of size.....but of course she likes UT and UT is just as large of a university in enrollment (although not thankfully in campus acreage) so that can't be the issue
but then UTD is miles apart from UT and even Baylor in terms of what has already been mentioned "college feel" and unfortunately UTD does that not so well and not nearly as well as their academics...so she is looking at dramatically different universities
and back to A&M from a pure man on the street perspective A&M would be every bit the university that UTD is especially since many would not know what UTD is and really A&M is a top university in MANY areas especially life sciences so really she can't possibly dislike A&M because of academic image while liking UTD can she?....UTD is close to home and Collin County (close to home) is mentioned.....does she want to be close to home? if so TCU and SMU are no slouches for getting students into medical school
again EDs offers more good info....UT just does not dole out the scholarship money for students with her metrics (they are very very very good metrics can't say that enough), but UT is extremely competitive and Austin is desirable enough and tuition is low enough that they really just don't have to even to attract top students (and I would say she is a top student)
he also mentions OU and 'Bamer.......he is correct they do heavily recruit top Texas students with nice financial packages.....as does Arkansas and Mississippi.......Arkansas is a very safe campus and surrounding city....Ole' Miss and Starksville (Mississippi State) have some rougher edges, but attract a lot of Texas students (especially Ole' Miss) and OU does as well........getting at least in state tuition rates with her grades is a high probability.....but again it needs to be about WELL MORE than money and cost
Strangelove offers sound advice IMO with the exception of the CC suggestion I really see ZERO need to complicate things with that in this particular stated financial situation and again trust me.....avoid the UNT.....high school is OVER.....why take your classes with HS kiddies especially your more difficult ones.....it is a LARGE university with all the disadvantages of that and all the issues (and more) of that and really few of the advantages the "college feel" is nowhere close to A&M, Baylor, Tech, UT or the others like that and while not as bad as UTA or UTD it will be much closer to that.....they do not have generous scholarship money and really with the out of state options for students with her metrics she can get to a school with a much improved "college feel" the same or better rep, probably better financial packages and just better all around everything (and no hard and physical science classes filled with children)
now back to "college feel" (it was stated by several before me it is IMPORTANT)
this is not a criticism per say, but you need to have a major talk with your daughter and you need to do it after you have sat down and thought about your daughter, her circle of friends, where they are looking to go to school, their grades, their desired majors, what you REALLY think of them (some of them....all of them)......how she socializes.....what she does to socialize......how is she in big settings (she does WELL in a BIG Plano school we see that so that is a "good") and in general you need to evaluate her as a person and then you need to find her a school
lets talk about some of the schools on her list (and her no list as well)
the REALITY is Texas A&M and Baylor are MUCH more similar as far as student body than they are different......you could put 75% of the Baylor students at A&M and 75% A&M students at Baylor and they would not miss a beat.....it is just a simple reality....the few that would miss a beat are those that went to Baylor because they wanted a smaller school.....that COULD be your daughter except she has UT as a preferred school
UT is a VERY VERY hard school to get a large group of friends.....A&M and Baylor are SO MUCH EASIER to just "be a student at A&M or Baylor" and "make a friend"
Austin is very expensive to live especially off campus and anywhere near campus VS Baylor or A&M.....so right off many students even with some money and or some financial aid spend a lot of time working.....classes are MASSIVE so you can almost forget about meeting people in many of them
there is "so much" to do in Austin that people have plans day and night
Austin (now more than ever and actually UT specifically to a bit of a lesser degree than in the past) is LITTERED (and littered is the right term) with people that live for a cause and UT has a lot of that......ride my bike....got to ride my bike.....everywhere.....me and my bike.....it is like an appendage of me.....my bike....me....me....my bike so if your daughter is not going to live in or on her bike that group of people is "out" to socialize with.....saving whales.....living underwater with the scuba club......climbing enchanted rock (EVERY OTHER DAY!).....live music and 6th street.....not for fun, but as a life style......got to have it.....all day.....all night.....every day......every night.....hey can't we just go somewhere and have fun......if it has live music sure!!!.....if not you are out.....and of course the frat scene is big as well and that is not just for the "cool frats", but the dork frats as well (is there a difference IDK you tell me haha)
this is a stereo type, but it is a sad reality that makes things worse at UT IMO.....on the other hand if you are just a regular college student trying to be a student, your main "cause" is getting into med school or graduating with decent grades and some (hopefully) meaningful degree A&M and Baylor are so much of a better choice IMO....A&M will still have the massive freshman classes (less so Baylor by a mile), but at A&M your apartment neighbor or your dorm neighbor or suite mate will probably be someone just looking to meet new people instead of letting everyone within 100 miles know what they are "hard core" about....or if anything they are "hard core" about being a student at Baylor or A&M haha
Texas Tech will be similar to this, but Texas Tech has a bit more of the frat scene moving in, but at not near the financial cost that it takes at UT especially....Texas Tech has a great college feel IMO probably better than UT because of the lack of those "dedicated to"....(whatever)
also on college confidential....MEH!......you have to really take that with a grain of salt....seriously people asking the proverbial "chance me" for STATE SCHOOLS with PUBLISHED GUARANTEED ADMISSIONS.....then you get people that actually "chance them" instead of giving them a link to the published GUARANTEED admissions and they are often totally off base.....they babble about average SATs and 25th percentile and 75th percentile when the person asking has already stated they are in the top 10% of their HS class which means guaranteed admissions to any public school in Texas not named UT Austin and even worse when they are using SAT and ACT scores and averages to "chance" and ignoring that often the schools they give a better "chance" to have harder published admissions while the one they say is a "lesser chance" has dramatically EASIER admissions.....there are a lot of knuckleheads on college confidential so look out
sorry for the long post, but it is a major decision.....I commend you for being ahead of the game, your daughters excellent metrics, your financial planning, but not to be critical you need to do a through and realistic evaluation of your daughter and just "how she is" and then you need to do some MAJOR IN PERSON visits to college campuses......and word of advice the only place that can have bigger knuckleheads that college confidential is university admissions councilors.....college is a BUSINESS.....enrollment of warm bodies is a GOAL....often less so at COMPETITIVE private schools.....much more so at public schools with a lot of warm bodies and average to middlin' admissions requirements.....get the BASIC facts from them then hit the door and go walk the campus at different times of day and night and see what you see and walk the halls of the buildings that house the professors in the chosen major and maybe even talk to a few.....it is WORK....but worth it.....you have clearly put in the WORK so far with your daughter don't stop now make that one last "parent" push and make a proper choice WITH her
from all I see I would say that your daughter needs a challenge, accepts a challenge, probably has a pretty decent size group of intelligent friends....she likes to be above the crowd, but does not NEED to be at the front, but she wants to look good (hence UTD as a backup based mainly on freshman entrance metrics) and what seems to be little else.....but she is all over the map on school size, school atmosphere, CC VS 4 year VS medium private VS medium public VS very large public
again evaluation of her social circle and her social habits and then tours of campus and there may be surprises what she finds she likes or dislikes....CC....NO GO IMO
quick edit....EDS offers again more SOUND advice just above me....very sound!
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