U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-07-2015, 09:32 AM
 
180 posts, read 129,057 times
Reputation: 124

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayTexan View Post
I live in the belly of the beast :-) in the Andrews zone and disagree with the above. None of my kid's friends (nor my kid) attend after school academic tutoring (including the Asians). I am fairly active volunteering in the school as well and there is no academic pressure as such (heck they don't have letter grades till they enter third grade and even there it is just to get used to the system). Many kids do attend weekend religious and culture classes (Indian, Chinese, other). There are some kids who do attend Kumon or similar but these are the ones that want to get into Mathrocks or whatever. A lot of the after school classes kids attend are for extra-curriculars - music, sports, martial arts etc. I am Asian and I want my kids to have what I did not have - a well-rounded education (including extra-curriculars; all we had was academics!). Many of my friends think the same way.

Wyatt is quite similar from what my friends tell me. Skaggs maybe a tad more competitive...

That being said, when the kids get to Rice (middle school), it gets more competitive (though more at the 8th grade level). Jasper (grades 9-10) is very competitive but then the kids go to Plano West (11-12) and it is competitive but also a large class so there is room for everyone with all kinds of interests.

To keep things in perspective, there will always be a percentage of students who are uber-competitive (tiger mom syndrome contributes too) but there is always a place for a good student who will find the positive peer pressure to their advantage. This has been discussed ad infinitum in various threads - would you rather have your child be in the top 20% (say) in a competitive school or the top 5% in a less competitive school?

You certainly don't have to worry about this at the elementary level - I think some of the posters above are exaggerating things.
We moved here from CT where they had excellant schools but not many asians and not many options for jumping ahead in math like mathrocks. A very differen environment, less competitive.

ALL of my daughters friends at jasper were SHOCKED that shes never had a tutor and had SYMPATHY for her. Several of those ethnic churches/community centers do have academic tutoring. And you will find tutoring centers throughout plano. As well as individuals who tutor at home as their profession lining up several kids after school like an afterschool program.

What do you think will happen when little johnny or little Javi isnt in the top 10%? why mr and mrs patel will call the tutor that their friends are raving about.

This is what plano is known for, just ask all the HS kids in the AP track. Even the HS kids in neighboring towns like allen, liberty all know this is what happens in plano. Or, maybe it depends on who your kids hang out with in MS, HS.

Last edited by Peter5457; 09-07-2015 at 09:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-07-2015, 11:14 AM
 
502 posts, read 614,194 times
Reputation: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emc62 View Post
No. Allen schools aren't at that level.
Yup. These elementary schools in Plano produce super humans and your kids are doomed if they don't go to Plano schools. It is laughable and beyond ridiculous how people argue over Plano schools. I have never seen this silliness anywhere else. I thought it was only at HS level but now it has come down to the elementary schoos level.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2015, 11:14 AM
 
127 posts, read 105,561 times
Reputation: 156
People insist on coaching and extra practice for their kids to excel in sports, orchestra,acting, singing, painting, computer programming and such, all the time but for whatever reason academic tutoring is always frowned upon. I don't get that.

My children almost always managed studies on their own but my oldest took Chemistry tuition and youngest is taking Calculus because they found these subjects challenging and wanted to tackle their weakness. I don't see anything wrong with that. I saw same pattern in their Indian/Asian friends, they study themselves but seek help if they need it.

Almost all Plano ISD teachers offer free tutorials before and after school but students who use bus or do sports, can't take advantage of that opportunity so they look for private tutoring on weekends as not many parents can help with all subjects. Free peer tutoring is a big thing in Plano and good students enjoy helping each other with difficult concepts, gives them better understanding of the subject themselves. To learn and perform better, you have to take studies as seriously as star athletes take their sports.

Last edited by Emc62; 09-07-2015 at 11:25 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2015, 11:30 AM
 
127 posts, read 105,561 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasMan_72 View Post
Yup. These elementary schools in Plano produce super humans and your kids are doomed if they don't go to Plano schools. It is laughable and beyond ridiculous how people argue over Plano schools. I have never seen this silliness anywhere else. I thought it was only at HS level but now it has come down to the elementary schoos level.
Don't twist my post, I answered OP's query about particular schools. Even in Plano, some schools are better than others, though most Collin County schools are fine for getting a good education. I don't understand why are you taking offense. Saying that one kid scores highest in his class and naming him valedictorian, doesn't mean that rest of the class is dumb and doomed to failure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2015, 02:03 PM
 
1,787 posts, read 1,885,270 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasMan_72 View Post
Yup. These elementary schools in Plano produce super humans and your kids are doomed if they don't go to Plano schools. It is laughable and beyond ridiculous how people argue over Plano schools. I have never seen this silliness anywhere else. I thought it was only at HS level but now it has come down to the elementary schoos level.
Don't worry most other schools are "fine".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2015, 02:13 PM
 
502 posts, read 614,194 times
Reputation: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceraceae View Post
Don't worry most other schools are "fine".
How dare you? You horrible, terrible parent.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2015, 01:51 PM
 
233 posts, read 221,392 times
Reputation: 130
My children lived with my ex in Allen until she remarried and they moved in with me. They found no difference in academic level of Allen or Dallas but felt that Allen had lower percentage of troubled kids compared to Dallas. Once I sold my uptown condo and bought one is HP, I moved them to HPHS.

They felt a huge gap in academics compared to Allen and Dallas schools. I had to hire a tutor to get them to the same level as HPHS peers. I can't blame Dallas schools as they were there for only three months. I feel that Allen didn't give them a solid foundation.

They are bright kids and caught up with HP kids within one year but they had to work very hard and spend most waking hours with tutor , every weekday after school and weekends. They feel that Allen was too relaxed and academic rigor wasn't as valued as it is in HPSH because neither administration nor students were aiming higher than community college or UTD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:50 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,367 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasG View Post
They feel that Allen was too relaxed and academic rigor wasn't as valued as it is in HPSH because neither administration nor students were aiming higher than community college or UTD.
I've been a long time reader/lurker but when I saw this topic I felt I could jump in as I've lived in Allen for at least 10 years, also attended Plano schools AND worked in Plano schools and am currently working in Allen/getting more interested in their education. First off, I only attended high school in Allen and really wasn't too aware of the style of teaching at the time but for some reason always remembered with Plano ISD style of things. Even though it's been a while I distinctly remember my friends in Plano having more papers and projects in their advanced classes than I did in mine but that could also be the choice of advanced classes I took.
Anyway in response to DallasG that the administration isn't focused on higher than community college or UTD, I get where you're coming from taking a shot at UTD but I wouldn't say that it's a bad caliber of education (not just saying that because I'm an alumnus of there since I also didn't value it as much). The valedictorian of the year I graduated and I think the following 2 years valedictorians chose to attend UTD and they all went on to med school. I wouldn't say most of the class of 1200 students had that as their goal but UTD has smart, high scoring students attend based on the scholarships they offer making their admitted students' average SAT score higher than UT. The only people who weren't aiming higher than community college at AHS were those in the regular classes but some also in AP classes as well. In my opinion with the cost of education and since most of them didn't know what they exactly wanted to study in college that was NOT a bad thing. Since Allen is relatively upper middle class, most of the average/slightly above average but not in top 10% preferred small state schools (I remember many people wanting to go to Stephen F Austin) or private schools like TCU or Baylor . There were only very few, mostly those in the IB program, who attended some better quality university out of state. I would say education at UTD is many times better than OU, Texas Tech and maybe even a FEW programs at A&M. I know many people from UTD who later went on to grad programs at Hopkins, Emory, Stanford, etc.

Now that I'm off my tangent about universities, I will agree with DallasG that Highland Park is no comparison to Allen. I wouldn't even compare it to Plano for sure but coming from a "typical" district in Collin County to Highland Park I'm pretty sure most students would need tutoring to catch up to their classmates who had been going to the district for years. Since HPISD is also smaller and basically it's own affluent niche, the teachers have a lot more flexibility in their curriculum. Most districts have centralized curriculum but it depends on how much a district allows teachers to differ from the general curriculum. Based on what I have seen and done in Plano ISD, teachers don't have much control in what they get to do. They follow the same straightforward teaching style. In Allen ISD, teachers do have more freedom in how they want to present the content. This doesnt always mean it's better but it gives more learning opportunities for students.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2015, 11:24 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,367 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfingers33 View Post
i totally get the point here. but id still like to imagine id stay in the house the next 10 years. so this is why i only care about the elementary quality in this thread. I'd like to at least want to buy a home where allen elementary is comparable to west plano's elementary (the area im looking at is wyatt, skagg, andrew).
OP, I'm not sure exactly what it is you are looking for in elementary schools in Allen to mirror those schools. It's funny before I read your post I was randomly comparing schools in Allen to Plano. Since I don't know exactly what it is about these schools that feed to Rice and have a high Asian population you're looking for, you can start by comparing the school report cards. The school report card gives the demographics percentages and passing % different levels of STAAR (which is also split up by race). Some may say state standardized testing is not a good measure but it's a good starting point especially since they changed the standardized test few years ago how much scores have dropped. Here's the link for Allen school:Accountability / Allen ISD Accountability Information and Plano ISD you pick the school, click the year then choose school report card: District and Campus Accountability and Performance Ratings : Plano ISD

If you really think a high Asian population creates a competitive environment then look at the elementary schools with a larger Asian population. I was just looking at elementaries in Allen here are few with large Asian populations: Kerr, Evans and Cheatham. What I think is are good indicators (still trying to understand categories as a future teacher) are percentages for the advanced standard, students who failed from previous year that passed next year and postsecondary readiness. Based on what Ive seen in my own neighborhood, the Asian population is slowly growing but concentrated at the elementary stage.
While posters above told the truth about the extra tutoring students do who live in the competitive area of Plano, I think it's slowly catching on in Allen but it's not dominant. When I was in high school, it seemed it was mostly the Asians who went to Karen Dillard. There were few white kids who took classes there once especially if they were looking at some select schools but they never came as frequently as the Asians (I know because I spent most of my time there >.< ) Even those in my grade that were National Merit qualifying scholars (think it was about 7) only 1 or 2 kids actually went to a place like KD with this extra test prep. One thing I like to emphasize to South Asian parents of young kids is all these extra after school enrichment programs might not benefit their child to push them to the top. The white kids at the top of my class weren't in any of these when I was in high school and maybe it's true now. I agree with emc that it's not a bad thing to use tutoring especially if a child is struggling but real learning isn't just drills; it's critical thinking.

Sorry for this long post. Like I stated before 've been a long time reader but this just made me want to register for an account immediately. Even though you don't have children but are THAT concerned about picking a good elementary school or competitive school district in general, why not look for houses zoned to Lovejoy ISD?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2015, 06:13 AM
 
25 posts, read 32,437 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfingers33 View Post
I just had a look at homes in Plano/Allen and the wife loves the new homes. Which basically means I'd have to buy in Allen ISD. I originally wanted to buy in the Plano West for the established school, but now it seems like I need to understand Allen ISD more. I don't have kids yet, but I will very soon, so school district is important to me. My expectation is that I buy now, and don't "need" to move for the next 25 years.

My agent said Allen ISD is great but I've read enough here to know that Allen HS is at least a tier to 2 down from Plano West for a strong student. I'd like to imagine that the high school is good after 20 years, but its a bit to bank on. Is there any things happening that suggest they will improve? How is there elementary and middle school compared to PISD.

I would personally feel okay buying a home in Allen if, 1, the elementary is just as good as PISD. And 2, there is a very good chance that the High School would improve dramatically.

Thoughts?

As a former student of Allen ISD (Class of 1994), who has a mother who taught in Allen, two brothers and a sister who were and or currently attending Allen ISD, I will say that Allen is not that bad of a district, and has grown by leaps and bounds over the last twenty or so years. I would not consider the district mediocre or 2nd rate by any stretch of the imagination.

I would also take what is said here with a grain of salt in regards to school districts because everyone has an opinion, but that does not make it fact. Do some research outside of this forum. I'm sure you will find that your child shouldn't struggle in Allen at all.

Also UTD, depending on your major isn't some low end school. I don't know the education of the person who made it seem like it was akin to going to community college, but they don't seem to know the history or background of the school and what the average student looks like there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top