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View Poll Results: Which to tear down: Woodall Rodgers or I-345?
Woodall Rodgers 2 10.00%
I-345 14 70.00%
Other (explain below) 4 20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2015, 04:27 PM
 
7,292 posts, read 8,128,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
No reason I-345 couldn't be torn down with a proper rebuild of I-30. Its such a short stretch of freeway, people would simply drive a different direction. I think this is one we really overthink. The traffic you see on it is always due to an accident on I-30. In other words its the world's widest exit ramp.
So let's pretend you are a low wage worker who lives well south and especially west of DTD but works at Baylor Hospital or any of about 1,000 business east of 345.........would you want to add 25/30 minutes to your commute?

345 isn't going away within the next 40/50 years nor should it.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:33 PM
 
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Things worked just fine before I-345 was built. Actually downtown was thriving then...at the start of Central was the Blue Cross Blue Shield building. After I-345 was built, the company moved up north.
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:20 PM
 
183 posts, read 142,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
So let's pretend you are a low wage worker who lives well south and especially west of DTD but works at Baylor Hospital or any of about 1,000 business east of 345.........would you want to add 25/30 minutes to your commute?

345 isn't going away within the next 40/50 years nor should it.
Another absurd argument. You can come up with hypothetical anecdotes to support anything. Under this logic we could never bulldoze any freeway ever since it could hypothetically inconvenience a hypothetical person.

And why would it be some crazy hardship for that person to simply exit I-30 directly? In your example, I-345 is only functioning as an exit ramp. Which is exactly why it's so pointless!

EDIT: Also interesting how it's the suburban members who support the freeway. I'm sick and tired of the City of Dallas kowtowing to the suburban interests. Those of us with some skin in the game (I can see 345 from my window) should be the ones represented at City Hall.

Last edited by f4shionablecha0s; 09-10-2015 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:39 PM
 
7,292 posts, read 8,128,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s View Post
Another absurd argument. You can come up with hypothetical anecdotes to support anything. Under this logic we could never bulldoze any freeway ever since it could hypothetically inconvenience a hypothetical person.

And why would it be some crazy hardship for that person to simply exit I-30 directly? In your example, I-345 is only functioning as an exit ramp. Which is exactly why it's so pointless!

EDIT: Also interesting how it's the suburban members who support the freeway. I'm sick of my city existing to serve the parasites.
Sorry Mr. Kriskin,

1. I live in Dallas - Inwood and Royal
2. I was born in Dallas - St. Paul Hospital
3. So poor people are parasites?
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:54 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 4,818,791 times
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Quote:
From speaking with John Norquist, current president of the CNU and former Mayor of Milwaukee, he told me that when the Westside Highway fell in Manhattan and it was replaced by a surface boulevard (the gap in this diagram illustrating a highway nearly wrapping the entire perimeter of Manhattan island), that 53% of the traffic disappeared as it was using the highway as an express route from New Jersey to New Jersey. It was fast and convenient, particularly for people not paying taxes nor living in a New York City borough.

Similarly, when Central Expressway in San Francisco suffered structural damage due to the 1989 Loma Prieto earthquake in 1989 and it was replaced with Octavia Boulevard, 25% of total traffic load disappeared. 50% re-routed to different highways. It wasn’t actually headed to the vicinity, but merely cutting through. Traffic congestion improved despite traffic planners dire warnings.
Umm...can we live in reality and not pretend that Dallas is San Francisco or NYC (seriously?) and isn't extremely dependent on cars for transportation. We don't have mass transit. We will never have the transportation infrastructure those cities have. Stop pretending.

Quote:
EDIT: Also interesting how it's the suburban members who support the freeway. I'm sick and tired of the City of Dallas kowtowing to the suburban interests. Those of us with some skin in the game (I can see 345 from my window) should be the ones represented at City Hall.
You're right, I live in Coppell now. But I lived in Dallas not that long ago...and worked outside of the city. The who idea that Dallas the "city" is this bubble that isn't intertwined with the rest of the metroplex is just maddening. The irony is that I used I-345 way more when I was living IN Dallas!

Quote:
Things worked just fine before I-345 was built. Actually downtown was thriving then...at the start of Central was the Blue Cross Blue Shield building. After I-345 was built, the company moved up north.
FFS, it isn't 1973 anymore. Really? Please tell me you aren't arguing with this? It doesn't make any sense at all. Excluding the metroplex, Dallas itself has WAY more people now than it did then.
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:55 PM
 
183 posts, read 142,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Sorry Mr. Kriskin,

1. I live in Dallas - Inwood and Royal
2. I was born in Dallas - St. Paul Hospital
3. So poor people are parasites?
Oh please. Stop being ridiculous. Like I said, this hypothetical poor person has to get on I-30 and exit in Deep Ellum. Or they could take the boulevard that will replace I-345. Secondly, we're trying to get this city to a situation where your hypothetical poor person doesn't have to spend a huge chunk of their income on gas.

Maybe you're super old? I'm not sure why the idea of any change to our 1960s era transportation planning is so terrifying to you. Maybe go to Duncanville and ask a person who commutes to Baylor if traveling a quarter mile further on I-30 is going to destroy their lives? I'm guessing they'll look at you like you're crazy.
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:56 PM
 
183 posts, read 142,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mSooner View Post
Umm...can we live in reality and not pretend that Dallas is San Francisco or NYC (seriously?) and isn't extremely dependent on cars for transportation. We don't have mass transit. We will never have the transportation infrastructure those cities have. Stop pretending.

You're right, I live in Coppell now. But I lived in Dallas not that long ago...and worked outside of the city. The who idea that Dallas the "city" is this bubble that isn't intertwined with the rest of the metroplex is just maddening. The irony is that I used I-345 way more when I was living IN Dallas!

FFS, it isn't 1973 anymore. Really?
Dallas is car dependent so we can't make any changes to make the city less car dependent because the city is car dependent and we can't make any changes...
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:00 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 4,818,791 times
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Eh. This isn't even worth it. The same people post these threads over and over to scream their minority viewpoint in an echo chamber over and over.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:21 AM
 
198 posts, read 195,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
So let's pretend you are a low wage worker who lives well south and especially west of DTD but works at Baylor Hospital or any of about 1,000 business east of 345.........would you want to add 25/30 minutes to your commute?

345 isn't going away within the next 40/50 years nor should it.
I am really confused by this statement. How would converting IH-345 into a Boulevard add an additional 25/30 minutes to anyone's commute? It might add about 5 minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by mSooner View Post
We don't have mass transit.
Huh? Dallas Area Rapid Transit

There's no way you don't know about DART, I assume you mean we don't have a mass transit system like SF and NYC.

Either way, I think this roadway brings up a lot of good arguments on how the city Dallas is today and the city we want Dallas to be in the future. Fortunately for most people who live in Metroplex, we have an amazing roadway system that makes it really easy to just hop in the car and remain a car-centric city. Eventually, as the metroplex balloons to 10 million people in the next 20-25 years, the roadway system will become more and more taxed and the whole car-centric mentality is going to have to change for a lot of people. Fortunately, for the metroplex, DART is a very large system that covers most people and areas (the bus system is a bit inefficient, they really need to fix that to make the entire system more viable to the average person) and with TOD's becoming more popular and traffic becoming worse, it's going to become more and more important to the Metroplex. If IH-345 does come down and is converted into a boulevard, yes it will inconvenience some people but they'll do just like anyone else, re-evaluate their routes, look for and try different options until they find one that works best for them or they will look at other options like DART, ride-share, and hopefully sometime in the not too distance future people can just use autonomous vehicles to get around and relieve congestion or help finish that last mile off public transportation.

It won't be the Carmageddon that naysayers say it will and it will cause an inconvenience to some drivers like others say it won't. But, it is something that people can work around and modify their commutes to make it work and it helps create another step for Dallas to move away from being a car-centric city
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:45 AM
 
7,292 posts, read 8,128,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dch526 View Post
I am really confused by this statement. How would converting IH-345 into a Boulevard add an additional 25/30 minutes to anyone's commute? It might add about 5 minutes



Oh my god.

170,000 cars per day use I-345. Who knows how many on Fair days, OU Texas weekend, concert night etc.

The proposed boulevard might be able to handle 25% of that traffic - probably less. Like virtually every statement made by people who want 345 to disappear your 5 minute claim isn't even worth discussion. This is much like the early claim that 345 could be removed and re-purposed for $90 to $100 million dollars.......when reality is it can't even be removed for $100 million dollars.

1. If you guys want to tear the thing down and re-purpose the road - where is the money going to come from?
2. One of the pro-removal guys, is on record claiming I-345 repairs would cost $250 million dollars. TXDOT now says repairs will cost a little over $30 million.


Until you guys stop using bogus figures ALL THE TIME your side isn't going to win over very many people.
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