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View Poll Results: Which to tear down: Woodall Rodgers or I-345?
Woodall Rodgers 2 10.00%
I-345 14 70.00%
Other (explain below) 4 20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-11-2015, 11:08 AM
 
198 posts, read 196,212 times
Reputation: 237

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Oh my god.

170,000 cars per day use I-345. Who knows how many on Fair days, OU Texas weekend, concert night etc.

The proposed boulevard might be able to handle 25% of that traffic - probably less. Like virtually every statement made by people who want 345 to disappear your 5 minute claim isn't even worth discussion. This is much like the early claim that 345 could be removed and re-purposed for $90 to $100 million dollars.......when reality is it can't even be removed for $100 million dollars.

1. If you guys want to tear the thing down and re-purpose the road - where is the money going to come from?
2. One of the pro-removal guys, is on record claiming I-345 repairs would cost $250 million dollars. TXDOT now says repairs will cost a little over $30 million.


Until you guys stop using bogus figures ALL THE TIME your side isn't going to win over very many people.
Please point out any bogus figures that I have specifically used, otherwise do not dump me in the same group.

No idea where the $250 million came from either. The total cost is estimated at $33,373,441 to rehab the structure per the TxDOT letting schedule (TxDOT has been quoted before saying that it would cost around $100 million so it makes me a little nervous that this doesn't cover the entire rehab of the bridge but we'll stick with this number for now) CCSJ: 0092-14-080

From study done by Patrick Kennedy (he may be a little optimistic)

Quote:
Using other highway tear-downs as a guide, we estimate it would cost $60 million to $65 million.
To be safe, let's say it would cost around $100 Million due to inflation and it is TxDOT

An existing project to construct 3 frontage lanes for 0.8 mi along IH-30 is estimated to cost $20 million
CCSJ: 1068-04-122
Different area of town, this stretch is longer and will have more lanes so let's quadruple that number and * 10% overhead to about $88 Million. So, $188-$200 Million to tear down and rebuild a boulevard in place of IH-345. Since this bridge will eventually have to be torn down and rebuilt in 30 (+/-) years or so at a cost of several hundred million dollars, TxDOT should fund the tear down and rebuild and then the City of Dallas would take ownership of the road going forward (TxDOT would no longer be responsible for it)

This would then open up new development in the area

Quote:
Right now there is only $19 million in improvements on those 245 acres, and the city collects a mere $3 million per year in property tax revenue. By removing the highway, restitching the grid, and creating developable blocks, the city would see $4 billion in new investment within 15 years and generate $100 million a year in property tax revenue
Even if Dallas only gets 75% of this it's still a good chunk of change that can fund improvements throughout the city.

The existing arterial streets surround IH-345 can hand an additional 200k+ additional vehicles daily. Therefore, the traffic that actually needs to go to those areas on or adjacent to those arterials should be able to do that and still get to their destination.

Other people that use it to get from the South-North or vice versa (and not have to backtrack to any loops) can use the new boulevard or Woodall Rodgers to connect to Hwy 75/IH-35/DNT going North or Hwy IH-45/IH35 going South.

Additional people who live further out and bypassing Dallas altogether can utilize Loop 12 (mainly the west side), IH-635, or PGBT

The State Fair is always going to cause traffic issues no matter what is or isn't built and shouldn't be a reason for or against additional highways (maybe improved/expanded arterial streets but not highways)

Honestly, no one knows how good or bad it actually is until it happens but I do think it should be researched in more detail to get a better idea of exactly who is driving on this highway, where are they coming from, where are they going and a detailed cost of every option for the roadway because it is in pretty rough shape and will need to be torn down or re-built eventually.

Source

Source
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:56 PM
 
3,815 posts, read 3,729,044 times
Reputation: 4116
Quote:
One of the pro-removal guys, is on record claiming I-345 repairs would cost $250 million dollars. TXDOT now says repairs will cost a little over $30 million.
FTA:
I-345 repairs cost a fraction of what TxDOT budgeted | Dallas Morning News
"TxDOT Dallas district engineer Kelly Selman announced Thursday that fixing the elevated highway connecting Central Expressway and Interstate 45 will cost about $30.5 million — a far cry from the $184.5 million budgeted.
That puts the renovation project in rare company among North Texas projects that frequently see their costs grow — and sometimes balloon — after approval but before the awarding of contracts.
"



In other words, TXDOT budgeted $180 million for the repairs and it is more common that those estimates are low than high. Blame their sorry estimator for the wild discrepancy.

You should also be thanking the same group for shining lights on the costs of the repairs, otherwise it's not out of the question for that whole $184.5 million plus to have been spent. Now that difference can be banked or spent on other projects.

If every capital infrastructure project in Dallas got this kind of public review, Dallas would be a better place.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:25 PM
 
3,610 posts, read 1,546,569 times
Reputation: 9965
Old thread, I know, but I just happened on some news stories from a couple years ago recommending elimination of the elevated freeway.


IT'S NUTS.


I remember what it was like in 1970 to try to get from north of downtown to south of downtown on surface streets. That was when the population of Dallas city was maybe 600,000, whereas today it's over a million, and never mind the explosive growth of the metro.


Are you saying that it would be a better idea for me, as a resident of Northeast Dallas, to go NORTH to LBJ, then EAST and subsequently SOUTH to I-30, then come back into the city to get on 45 south?


Or maybe I should go WEST on Northwest Highway, with a traffic light every half mile, then south on 35, then east on 30 to 45?


Or should I cut through downtown with a traffic light EVERY SINGLE FREAKING BLOCK?


Or west on Woodall Rodgers, then south on 35, then east on 20, back to 45?\


Oh, and don't forget that they took out Good-Latimer which was at least theoretically a parallel route to Central Expressway.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:27 PM
 
3,610 posts, read 1,546,569 times
Reputation: 9965
Quote:
Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s View Post
Increase the tax base by eliminating a piece of infrastructure that only benefits suburban commuters. Win-win.

Are you really, seriously, trying to suggest that people who live more than two miles south of LBJ, that you would force to drive NORTH in order to go SOUTH past downtown, are somehow "suburban commuters"?
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:29 PM
 
3,610 posts, read 1,546,569 times
Reputation: 9965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
Things worked just fine before I-345 was built. Actually downtown was thriving then...at the start of Central was the Blue Cross Blue Shield building. After I-345 was built, the company moved up north.

Did you ever try to drive from North Dallas to South Dallas, or head toward Houston, before the elevated was built? I remember this personally.
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Arlington, TX
1,060 posts, read 566,395 times
Reputation: 1418
I don't live in Dallas anymore but I used to go there quite frequently to shop, eat and enjoy the nightlife. Even though I didn't live in Dallas I was putting money into Dallas coffers via the city sales tax and by spending money in Dallas instead of other cities. The worse and worse the traffic gets in Dallas, the less time and money I am willing to spend in Dallas. Dallas isn't a walled city cut off from the rest of DFW. There are many people like me who are finding alternative places to spend money or put their businesses because they're tired of fighting Dallas traffic. Several years ago we strongly considered moving back to Dallas and relocating my husband's business there. My family is there and most of our friends at the time were in Dallas. We decided against it because my husband couldn't stand Dallas traffic.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:08 AM
 
463 posts, read 276,753 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Did you ever try to drive from North Dallas to South Dallas, or head toward Houston, before the elevated was built? I remember this personally.
I believe that's the issue. Intercity highways blighted the adjacent areas and depressed the local tax base so that drivers from far away suburbs could have a convenient drive, with a majority of traffic simply bypassing downtown.
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Old 01-02-2017, 12:34 PM
 
1,886 posts, read 1,016,497 times
Reputation: 2044
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP48G View Post
I believe that's the issue. Intercity highways blighted the adjacent areas and depressed the local tax base so that drivers from far away suburbs could have a convenient drive, with a majority of traffic simply bypassing downtown.
Exactly. If someone from McKinney is going to Houston, there's absolutely no reason why they should drive right through the middle of Downtown Dallas to get there. With so many DFW suburbs adding more jobs and retail/food/entertainment options, they no longer have a reason to be in the Downtown Dallas area. So Dallas urban planners shouldn't really worry about those folks. The economic opportunities that could arise from this in DTD & Deep Ellum trumps the needs of the suburbs.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:42 AM
 
254 posts, read 118,862 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mSooner View Post
Woodall Rogers isn't going anywhere...not after Klyde Warren.

I-345 isn't going anywhere unless it is buried. And the idea that traffic will just "go away" blows my mind. I hate that argument.
Bury it just like Woodall Rogers. Just connct about three streets to Deep Ellum. Then the Baylor Medical Center would connect into Deep Ellum as Victory Park is now becoming part of Uptown Dallas.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:50 AM
 
254 posts, read 118,862 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTXman34 View Post
Exactly. If someone from McKinney is going to Houston, there's absolutely no reason why they should drive right through the middle of Downtown Dallas to get there. With so many DFW suburbs adding more jobs and retail/food/entertainment options, they no longer have a reason to be in the Downtown Dallas area. So Dallas urban planners shouldn't really worry about those folks. The economic opportunities that could arise from this in DTD & Deep Ellum trumps the needs of the suburbs.
Theoretically, after all the freeways have been demolished around downtown Houston, one won't be able to get from McKinney to Houston.
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