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Old 10-15-2015, 09:23 AM
 
Location: The Mid-Cities
1,080 posts, read 1,381,022 times
Reputation: 670

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Every single thing EDS_ wrote is spot-on. This is the key, though. If things go down as laid out in this plan, "DFW" will be known as "DFP" fifty years from now..
Fort Plano?
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Plano,TX
344 posts, read 359,624 times
Reputation: 567
I think it meant Dallas Frisco Plano :-)
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:31 PM
 
655 posts, read 755,163 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceraceae View Post
Those aren't but all the average apartments could. Stick apartments usually don't age well.
I think the key with the apartments (not the high-end condos) is to build them with the walkable "new urbanism" type mentality in mind. For example, the first apartments in Shops at Legacy really aren't what I consider 'luxury' apartments. They are now over 10 years old, but they're clearly still desirable because of proximity to a plethora of dining, retail and employment options. I think emulating this type of more sustainable multi-family development will be key in keeping pace with the evolution of suburban development and helping to avoid some of the aging strip mall / traditional apartment issues.

The traditional apartment complexes built all over Collin County do look long in the tooth after a while. They are cheaply constructed and aren't built with long-term build quality as the primary focus. The town center or mixed-use model helps curtail this by providing other incentives for folks to live in a complex, even as it ages.

I would say the 'ghetto' people you mentioned are living in the older homes and apartments, but definitely not exclusively one or the other. I've seen those strip malls at Parker & Alma, and the general condition/tenants isn't vastly different from what you see anywhere else in Collin County built pre-2000. I've seen way worse in Richardson and East McKinney.

The demographics probably just don't support anything upscale, and the area in general is over-saturated with retail IMO, so of course they attract the cheap fitness facilities, check cashing and vape shops. What else is new? Every strip mall in suburban Dallas has a fly-by-night vape shop now or a cash store. Heck, until recently Polo Towne Crossing in West Plano had that ridiculous Zone D'Erotica - thankfully that's finally gone.

Also, dissenters at those meetings citing people moving to McKinney is ridiculous. There are a few nice parts of McKinney, but a lot of East McKinney looks like you are either in Mexico or a meth lab, and many of the West portions along McKinney Ranch will look just as bad as Parker and Alma in 20 years - cheaply built Centex style homes.

"McKinney has 10 other affordable housing developments outside of Millennium I and II. Millennium II would bring the total number of affordable multi-family units in the city to 1,946, which is roughly 10 times the amount in Allen, five times the amount in Plano and three times the amount in Frisco, according to city officials."
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:47 PM
 
1,787 posts, read 1,885,734 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMC_TX View Post
I think the key with the apartments (not the high-end condos) is to build them with the walkable "new urbanism" type mentality in mind. For example, the first apartments in Shops at Legacy really aren't what I consider 'luxury' apartments. They are now over 10 years old, but they're clearly still desirable because of proximity to a plethora of dining, retail and employment options. I think emulating this type of more sustainable multi-family development will be key in keeping pace with the evolution of suburban development and helping to avoid some of the aging strip mall / traditional apartment issues.

The traditional apartment complexes built all over Collin County do look long in the tooth after a while. They are cheaply constructed and aren't built with long-term build quality as the primary focus. The town center or mixed-use model helps curtail this by providing other incentives for folks to live in a complex, even as it ages.

I would say the 'ghetto' people you mentioned are living in the older homes and apartments, but definitely not exclusively one or the other. I've seen those strip malls at Parker & Alma, and the general condition/tenants isn't vastly different from what you see anywhere else in Collin County built pre-2000. I've seen way worse in Richardson and East McKinney.

The demographics probably just don't support anything upscale, and the area in general is over-saturated with retail IMO, so of course they attract the cheap fitness facilities, check cashing and vape shops. What else is new? Every strip mall in suburban Dallas has a fly-by-night vape shop now or a cash store. Heck, until recently Polo Towne Crossing in West Plano had that ridiculous Zone D'Erotica - thankfully that's finally gone.

Also, dissenters at those meetings citing people moving to McKinney is ridiculous. There are a few nice parts of McKinney, but a lot of East McKinney looks like you are either in Mexico or a meth lab, and many of the West portions along McKinney Ranch will look just as bad as Parker and Alma in 20 years - cheaply built Centex style homes.

"McKinney has 10 other affordable housing developments outside of Millennium I and II. Millennium II would bring the total number of affordable multi-family units in the city to 1,946, which is roughly 10 times the amount in Allen, five times the amount in Plano and three times the amount in Frisco, according to city officials."
I agree there are old apartments in all the Collin County towns south of 380 that look rough. It seems logical that the apartments built in City-line and similar developments will age better than a field full of garden style apartments.

I actually like Plano is trying to plan ahead.

McKinney Ranch may be the ugliest corridor in McKinney.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:13 PM
 
233 posts, read 221,438 times
Reputation: 130
Allen residents may take it as bashing Allen but at least Plano and Frisco are bigger and have big businesses to shoulder some expenses. What would Allen do when there are no more new homes and malls are declining like they are everywhere else. Lots of homes are Lennar style and wouldn't look nice after aging. Schools aren't as good as Plano or Frisco. There aren't big businesses. Football stadium can't support town's economy, it can hardly support itself.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:24 PM
 
1,787 posts, read 1,885,734 times
Reputation: 1706
I don't understand the obsession with Allen's football stadium. What mall is there to decline?

Another thing is schools on this site are nit picked to a level I have never seen before. The vast majority of people see no difference in Allen and Plano schools, and if they do its not significant enough to be much of a factor in future successes or failures of either town.

Last edited by Aceraceae; 10-15-2015 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: plano
5,958 posts, read 7,502,191 times
Reputation: 5012
Criticism on both sides sounds like it's a good plan to me. Change is good as long as it's moving forward. I like my quarter of an acre lot but see denser housing is where plano needs to go next. Zoning is artificial setting uses and needs to be adjusted over time as for example frisco rather than plano got the larger mall although both probably zoned for one missing the decline of bricks and sticks shopping as online grows.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
166 posts, read 174,193 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceraceae View Post
I don't understand the obsession with Allen's football stadium. What mall is there to decline?

Another thing is schools on this site are nit picked to a level I have never seen before. The vast majority of people see no difference in Allen and Plano schools, and if they do its not significant enough to be much of a factor in future successes or failures of either town.
Not to derail the thread, but I couldn't agree more with this statement. I'm just as keen to have my kids go to high performing schools as most people and I'm fortunate to live in a very good feeder pattern in RISD, but the comparisons on here can be kind of insane. I'd have been just as happy having my children go to Richardson HS as Pierce and it certainly would not have made or broken our house-hunting decisions. Once you're in the upper 20-30%, your kids are going to be fine. And shockingly enough, they may still be fine in a public school that ISN'T in the top third.

If I go to GreatSchools it turns out I went to a 2 Elementary school, a 4 Jr High, and a 6 High School. To read some of the posters on here, they probably think that means I'm posting from a medium-security prison somewhere since nobody who doesn't go to Plano West could possibly be successful in life. My HS class probably produced 10+ kids who went to Ivy League schools.

Back on topic, this plan seems like a good direction for Plano. It's becoming a very important commercial center for the area and you can either plan for inevitable growth or let it happen in an uncontrolled manner which is bad for everybody. Plano may have been more like the McKinney of today 25 years ago, but it's quickly becoming a 3rd economic "pole" for the area and is no longer bedroom community. As a close-Plano neighbor, I appreciate that they're planning for their future - it's better for the entire metroplex.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Prosper
6,268 posts, read 12,122,402 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingInRichardson View Post
If I go to GreatSchools it turns out I went to a 2 Elementary school, a 4 Jr High, and a 6 High School. To read some of the posters on here, they probably think that means I'm posting from a medium-security prison somewhere since nobody who doesn't go to Plano West could possibly be successful in life. My HS class probably produced 10+ kids who went to Ivy League schools.
Oh please, no one thinks you're posting from a medium security prison!






(Internet access is limited to minimum security/county jail type facilities.)


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Old 10-16-2015, 11:04 AM
 
3,811 posts, read 3,710,431 times
Reputation: 4106
Quote:
What would Allen do when there are no more new homes and malls are declining like they are everywhere else.
People shouldn't cast stones about Allen's economic situation vs Plano:

Allen:100,000 people
Ad Velorum Property Tax:$49.4m ~ 27.8% of total revenue -
Sales Tax: $35m ~ 20% of total revenue
Franchise Fees: 4%
Charges for services; 37.4% - water & sewer - almost completely poured back into providing these services.


Plano: ~300,000 residents
Ad velorum property tax - $98m 27.6% of total revenue
Sales tax: $65m ~ 13% of total revenue
Franchise Fees: $24m 6%
Charge for Service: 32% - water & sewer - almost completely poured back into providing these services.

So Allen is drawing 50% of the property tax (the largest percent of usable income for any Texas city) income on 1/3 of the residents (but same suburban residential base), and 50% of sales tax with a higher percentage of income from sales tax (what? I thought Plano was the shopping mecca?).

See the effects of that under performing retail?

Maybe Allen will suffer in the future, but right now it's a pretty dominant community from a financial perspective.
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