DFW Home Prices keep going UP! (Dallas, Corpus Christi: for sale, apartment, rent)

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Honestly, I don't care if house prices go up or down. I'm not planning to sell anytime soon and even if they did go down, they'd have to go down a lot to put me upside down. As long as my house is worth more than I owe on it, I'm happy.

What I DO care about is having to pay ever-higher utility rates and property taxes because of other peoples' decisions, i.e. to move HERE. It's annoying.

But, if you think about it, you know the reasons why home prices are going up. Or, to put it better, if home prices are going down..

People are leaving the area/not wanting to move...
Which means businesses are likely not moving into the area, and are likely closing down/moving away
Which means fewer employment opportunities, fewer private amenities, etc.

The municipalities still need to provide services, and with a narrower tax base, your tax rates may go up anyway (and your tax liability not drop very much, if at all), even with a decline in property values.

Also, this can make it more difficult to relocate if that "offer you can't refuse" does happen to come along. OK, in your situation where you have a ton of equity anyway, notasmuch, but in areas where prices are declining, homes tend to take longer to sell (housing markets tend to have "stickiness" and don't clear very efficiently), which can muck up your plans.

Yes, higher property taxes are annoying, but in general you'd rather have home price appreciation than the other way around.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

But, if you think about it, you know the reasons why home prices are going up. Or, to put it better, if home prices are going down..

People are leaving the area/not wanting to move...
Which means businesses are likely not moving into the area, and are likely closing down/moving away
Which means fewer employment opportunities, fewer private amenities, etc.

The municipalities still need to provide services, and with a narrower tax base, your tax rates may go up anyway (and your tax liability not drop very much, if at all), even with a decline in property values.

Also, this can make it more difficult to relocate if that "offer you can't refuse" does happen to come along. OK, in your situation where you have a ton of equity anyway, notasmuch, but in areas where prices are declining, homes tend to take longer to sell (housing markets tend to have "stickiness" and don't clear very efficiently), which can muck up your plans.

Yes, higher property taxes are annoying, but in general you'd rather have home price appreciation than the other way around.

A reasonable amount of home price appreciation is fine. But DFW's explosive growth is costing some of us money. You can't argue that point. It's way above the level of inflation. I'm hardly the only one complaining about sky-high utilities since NTMWD decides to pass on all its infrastructure upgrade costs to subscriber cities and since Richardson is a member along with many other fast-growing exurbs, we get to pay for infrastructure development way the eff out in northern Collin county. Lucky us!!!!!!!

As for increased employment opportunities...sorry, don't see it. Neither do many of my fellow I.T. workers. When companies move here, there aren't many jobs for the locals. The jobs go to people who followed the company to Dallas or, increasingly, to foreign contractors. Double yay.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by octo

Why are you astonished? I have to pay several thousand dollars a year extra just because my net worth went up and don't get anything tangible in return (at least I don't feel like city services or schools improve accordingly). I don't plan on selling and I'm not that vain to care about my net worth enough to happily pay thousands a year extra for virtually no return.

If I was a 1%er like you and my bigger picture would be an Excel spreadsheet with millions of net worth on the bottom line then I wouldn't care as much either.
Because I'm not a 1%er, my house is the biggest part of my net worth but it's not a liquid asset so if this gets more valuable then another more liquid part of my net worth has to suffer. I don't have millions in non-house assets like you seem to have so of course it's difficult for you to understand.

Several thousand more per year? Or several thousand more over brand-X year some years ago?

You may not want/need to but others will use their increased home equity to borrow for education - to start a business - to keep a business going - for a reverse mortgage etc. Or as a store of value for future endeavors in including retirement.

It's ironic that one of the regulars here, not you, is griping about increasing home values when not even 4 years ago she was griping about decreased home values and structural (i.e. permanent) unemployment - much of that argument was that U3 unemployment in Texas was likely to never be below 7.0-8.0% again therefore we needed to install a state income tax or raid the state's "rainy-day" fund. BTW - I'd like for every person here who used that line or similar to forever butt out of any discussion about economics ever - EVER.

octo,
Could it be that too much of your personal portfolio is tied up in your home?

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

A reasonable amount of home price appreciation is fine. But DFW's explosive growth is costing some of us money. You can't argue that point. It's way above the level of inflation. I'm hardly the only one complaining about sky-high utilities since NTMWD decides to pass on all its infrastructure upgrade costs to subscriber cities and since Richardson is a member along with many other fast-growing exurbs, we get to pay for infrastructure development way the eff out in northern Collin county. Lucky us!!!!!!!

As for increased employment opportunities...sorry, don't see it. Neither do many of my fellow I.T. workers. When companies move here, there aren't many jobs for the locals. The jobs go to people who followed the company to Dallas or, increasingly, to foreign contractors. Double yay.

Thing is, although home price appreciation the last year has been quite strong (10.3% apparently per the link, and 8.9% over the last 12 months per Case-Schiller), over the last decade it hasn't been that great. Even if we go from the May 2011 trough to today, it's been 7% per year, and that was AFTER a decline in housing that started after April 2007. If we go from April 2007 to now, housing prices in DFW have only increased at an annualized rate of 2.3%, which is pretty darn close to "rate of inflation" (just checked, CPI from April 2007 to now has been 1.75%). If we go from January of 2000, DFW home prices have appreciated at 2.7% annualized.

Sometimes housing goes up fast, sometimes it goes up slow, and sometimes it declines. DFW is generally LESS volatile in terms of housing costs than most other parts of the country, and in general experiences LOWER appreciation than most other parts of the country (and IIRC, even today's appreciation is still below the median for the 20 metro areas covered by Case-Schiller).

Also, it's not just job opportunities - Richardson is having a renaissance in a number of ways, as you've often pointed out. I'm going to go crazy here and say that might not be happening if not for the overall influx of people. I'm a huge fan of Richardson overall (it's a rarity in DFW, an "older" 'burb with character and darn good schools), but it wouldn't be as attractive as it is (proximity to downtown) if not for all that land farther out being bought up and developed and making "out there" more expensive and more difficult commuting-wise.

I get the complaints, but overall it's more of "such problems one should have". There are plenty of smaller rust belt cities that would love to have our issues.

[MckinneyOwnr]

I've lived in places where home values have tanked, and I've lived in places where the values have increased significantly.

I much prefer places where property values are rising, because along with that housing demand comes further economic development to satisfy the needs of a growing population. That means more retail, more restaurants, and more jobs.

Places where home values are dropping like a rock? That leads to people being underwater, leading to foreclosures and strategic defaults. Suddenly the entire neighborhood is in trouble, HOA fees increase dramatically to make up for the non paying homeowners, no one wants to move into such an area, and it spreads.

Texans have long enjoyed a comparatively low cost of living, especially concerning housing, vs the rest of the nation. That's changing, but we're nowhere near the insane cost/sq ft that you'll find in CA or NY, or even what you'll find down in Highland Park.

[J.Thomas]

This market keeps going up and up with zero interest rates.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by J.Thomas

This market keeps going up and up with zero interest rates.

Actually, interest rates have been moving higher for the last few months. That said, the recent data was from 3q, and rates generally declined slightly during that time frame and were at their lowest since 2012/1q2013.

[whj3773]

imo homes here are getting way to expensive, we have to remember that this is Texas, little to no scenery, no mountains, no beach, bad weather for half the year, an abundance of land. there should be a big discount in real estate here vs other more desirable areas of the country.

i think once you loose that discount, Texas seems MUCH less appealing.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by whj3773

imo homes here are getting way to expensive, we have to remember that this is Texas, little to no scenery, no mountains, no beach, bad weather for half the year, an abundance of land. there should be a big discount in real estate here vs other more desirable areas of the country.

i think once you loose that discount, Texas seems MUCH less appealing.

It's more about the economy than the scenery. We are creating jobs at a faster pace than most of the country in a lower tax environment. I'd rather have a great job here where I can live in a lovely home and send kids to great schools, with plenty leftover to travel the world.

[4Movingeast]

Originally Posted by whj3773

imo homes here are getting way to expensive, we have to remember that this is Texas, little to no scenery, no mountains, no beach, bad weather for half the year, an abundance of land. there should be a big discount in real estate here vs other more desirable areas of the country.

i think once you loose that discount, Texas seems MUCH less appealing.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but I get so tired of comments like this. If scenery is so important to you, go find a job in a more desirable location and live there.

Also, *lose.

Also, mountains (Big Bend) and beaches (Port A, South Padre, Galveston, Corpus Christi, Rockport, etc), scenery (fields of bluebonnets in the spring, beautiful old neighborhoods in many cities and towns throughout the state, Caprock Canyons, Palo Duro Canyon, many vistas in the TX Hill Country, I could go on but I'll stop there).