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Old 12-14-2015, 07:30 AM
 
16 posts, read 33,539 times
Reputation: 17

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First off, I realize that the title of the post is going to create a few different **passionate** reactions among the faithful here, so before you pass judgement on me just read on to see what we are curious about and let us know if this magical land exists in Dallas. We realize we have to adjust our expectations and will have to make tradeoffs, however I'm more interested to get your thoughts on if there is something we are missing. The general location of the office is off of the Dallas tollway, north of 635, so we have kept our focus on neighborhoods north of Dallas (everywhere from Southlake to Lakewood)

Second, a little about us. We are a family of 4, currently living overseas for work and are considering moving to Dallas this summer. We have two early year elementary school kids. I grew up in a DFW suburb (wife grew up in Mid-Atlantic), however we have lived all over the US and overseas. Our home budget is $500-650k for a 4-bdrm.

Okay, so what are we looking for in an ideal location? Simple: A COOL house, in a COOL neighborhood, with COOL local things to do, with GOOD schools....that we can AFFORD. Simple right? We tend to like cities with lots of outdoor space, great restaurants, and an interesting culture about them (like Boulder, Austin, Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights/Park Slope), Portland, Seattle, Edina (Minneapolis,MN), Annapolis, MD). We like that these towns have neighborhoods that are small enough (or geographically outlined enough) that you can "easily get your hands around them and feel a part of". Having lived in four of the above cities, they aren't perfect by any means, but they each bring a nice lifestyle with an interesting non-cookie-cutter factor to them. And all of them with the exception of Brooklyn have good public schools combined with the neighborhoods.

HOUSE: The most important things we look for in a house are a) good bones (a well thought out floorplan), b) doesn't look exactly the neighbors, c) not in a massive suburb, d) good quality materials used inside and out of the home (i.e, avoid cost-cutting flippers). The wife prefers a mid-century modern type house, but open to other architecture styles as well as long as it has some unique qualities to it either from curb-appeal, open floorplan, property (i.e,. close to a lake or hiking trails, etc). She is not a big fan of the traditional 1990s Dallas pink-brick home. I prefer a larger home then most of the 3-bdrm mid-century modern ranch homes tend to come in, but important to me is that the back yard is large enough for the kids to play in (seems to be a problem with some of these pool-only backyards). The last couple of homes we bought were older homes in need of remodeling but with a good floorplan ("good bones") in a good neighborhood. We would prefer not to do this for this move, but will if we have to.

NEIGHBORHOOD: Desired traits about the neighborhood to us are an established city-type neighborhoods with tree lined streets, with well maintained homes, and a sense of history and community to it. It's nice to find neighborhoods where families have lived for generations and continue to invest in it with locally owned restaurants, cafes, and boutique shopping, and now the young families are moving back in. It's hard to keep out the big chains if the neighborhood is desirable (and we certainly like some chains like Whole Foods, Target, REI, etc), but we especially like having a go-to neighborhood restaurant or bar we can support. We also prefer walkable neighborhoods that have some type of destination to walk to (e.g., a great park, walking trails, a main shopping/restaurant area, a nice coffee shop, a farmers market, seasonal festivals, etc.). There needs to be a good grocery store nearby as well, so I've mapped out where all the Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Central Market and Sprouts are in the city. My kids single request was that the neighborhood has other children their age that they can play with. It would be great to live close enough to the school so the kids could walk (is that still legal in the US?), however that's just a nice to have.

A big caveat here is that it needs to be safe. I don't want to be constantly worried about my wife or children out on a walk or the home being broken into. If I'm paying this much to live in a neighborhood I want to be able to enjoy it.

A second big caveat, is that our interpretation of these neighborhoods is only based on my recollection from 20+ years ago, what we've read on the various websites, and we see on Zillow/Google Maps. We are planning to spend some time there before our move to get a better sense of the land, however to date we we've been attracted to: Far North Dallas (NW Hills, Prestonwood, Brentfield/Bowie, Bent Tree North), Lake Highlands, and Lakewood. We've found some interesting homes, but not sure about the neighborhoods. We've also dabbled in looking at some of the larger suburban towns (via Zillow) of Grapevine, Colleyville, Southlake, Plano, etc. We liked the idea of Grapevine's historic downtown, however there doesn't seem to be an attractive neighborhood within walking distance around it. That's a shame.

SCHOOLS: We strongly prefer the public school system over paying for a private school. This is however one area that Lake Highlands and Lakewood fall off for me. The elementary schools seem very good, but the middle and high school start to falter. I have read posts from several of you that will defend both areas to the end, and I applaud your dedication, however I have no existing ties to these schools so it is hard for me to jump in with both feet into an "up and coming" school system or one that is ready to rebound if everyone would just stop sending their kids to private school. It's too early for us to know if our children would be suitable for the DISD/RISD magnet schools. I've looked at the numbers, and its clear that the overwhelming majority of Lakewood is sending their children to private school when they reach Middle school or they are moving. That just feels like bad karma to me. This is typically in the discussion where people say well if you want good school systems, you have to go to Southlake, Plano, Allen, Frisco, or McKinney then. We are certainly willing to consider Southlake and Plano (others too far) if we can find a good balance with the other interests above. Do you know of neighborhoods in those towns that might meet our needs? The Far North Dallas Brentfield/Bowie neighborhoods feed in to RISD (Pearce HS) which seems like a decent trade-off.

We are also not the super-PTA type parents that will care if our child's first grade is ranked top in the state or if our children aren't the valedictorians (I certainly wasn't), but we just want to trust that the school hires great teachers and principals that want to challenge kids in different ways (i.e., beyond the tests) and sets them up for success in college by the time they graduate. The school doesn't have to do everything for us and we are fine to fill in the gaps where needed as well. Schools are also an important factor for me when I consider resale value of the home. In my line of work I can be asked to move to a new city at any point, so we have to stay pretty flexible and want to make sure we buy a home in stable neighborhoods where prices shouldn't fall off a cliff. We are going into this move with an expected timeline of at least 2-3 years in Dallas. While that means there is a reasonable chance my kids may never see the middle or high school that we move into, I still give more weight to a neighborhood that has good schools end to end.

Okay, so if you got past all of that without vomiting, where do you think this magical land might exist? Are there sub-neighborhoods within the larger suburbs that we might want to take a look at? Specific streets? Cool pockets of walkable restaurants/bars/etc?

For reference, we've crossed out the following areas so far: Preston Hollow/N Dallas (Schools), Park Cities (Price), Oak Cliff (Schools, Safety), Uptown/M-Streets/Junius/Lower Greenville (Schools), Allen/Frisco/McKinney (too far out), Lewisville/Flower Mound (Fracking?!?!?).

Finally, thanks for your input!!!!
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,083,912 times
Reputation: 28547
Check out Canyon Creek, The Reservation, or Waterview Preservation in Richardson. All in 75080, all safe, all zoned to excellent schools. You can go hog wild on your budget there. Not many MCM ranches on the ground there, but some pop up from time to time. The issue here is that your desired architectural style doesn't match the reality of public school quality in the areas that have spacious MCM ranches. Canyon Creek is mostly 60s-70s houses; the other two areas are mid 50s to early 60s for the most part. The entire zip code is very popular with young families.

No Whole Foods in Richardson at the moment (ours moved to Addison a couple of years ago) but they're opening a new one at CityLine next year...or so the rumor says. There's a Central Market in Plano just a couple of miles north on Coit, and a Sprouts at Coit & Campbell (close to Canyon Creek & The Reservation). Nearest Trader Joe's is at Walnut Hill & 75 (a few miles south) or on BeltLine & Preston (a few miles west). AFAIK, no plans for a new Trader Joe's in the area anytime soon.

As for walkable...this is Dallas, not Brooklyn. Sorry.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:04 AM
 
1,256 posts, read 2,480,982 times
Reputation: 1906
The only thing magic about Dallas right now are its awesome job opportunities, great suburban schools and still kinda affordable housing (compared to the east or west coasts).

If you can find everything on your list in the other cities you mentioned, then please move there. You will *hate* DFW.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Shady Drifter
2,444 posts, read 2,736,329 times
Reputation: 4118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
If you can find everything on your list in the other cities you mentioned, then please move there. You will *hate* DFW.

This is pretty much spot-on. Dallas is an economic hotspot, not a "cool" hotspot.

If you do insist on moving here, cross places like Southlake off your list if you're going to the Dallas North Tollway and 635, unless you like 45 minute to an hour commutes each way. Stay in the Richardson area.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,083,912 times
Reputation: 28547
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeagleEagleDFW View Post
This is pretty much spot-on. Dallas is an economic hotspot, not a "cool" hotspot.
Very true. DFW is very much the opposite of "cool."
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:26 AM
 
3,808 posts, read 8,693,488 times
Reputation: 5536
Piggy-backing on BigDGeek's suggestion
Canyon Creek might not be MCM homes but they are not cookie cutter. I love driving thru there and will cut thru the neighborhood rather than taking the frontage road because it's just a prettier drive. And depending on where you are Campbell's isn't too far away and II Creeks has some great restaurant and shops that I know people bike and walk to.

And the Whole Foods is definitely coming - drive past it several times a week. And that's just a straight shot down Renner which is north end of CC
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Prosper
6,255 posts, read 16,975,181 times
Reputation: 9501
Most people stop caring about being "cool" when they get out of their 20's.

You're not going to find what you are looking for in DFW. Period.

This isn't Austin (even Austin isn't "Austin" anymore) and it's not Brooklyn and it's not Seattle.

This is the land of job opportunities while still having very affordable housing compared to other major metropolitan areas. You're going to be living in a massive suburb no matter where you choose. Based on what you've already ruled out due to distance, schools, etc, then your best bet is Plano. Tons of restaurants and retail, close to work, good schools, safe... everything except "cool."

All the cool kids who grew up in Plano are now living in Frisco, McKinney, or Prosper. They're still cool, though their kids would quickly disagree, but what the hell do they know?
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:07 AM
 
16 posts, read 33,539 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
If you can find everything on your list in the other cities you mentioned, then please move there. You will *hate* DFW.
I wish I would have thought of that before writing that long post this morning.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:10 AM
 
16 posts, read 33,539 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Check out Canyon Creek, The Reservation, or Waterview Preservation in Richardson. All in 75080, all safe, all zoned to excellent schools.
Thanks. I knew of Canyon Creek but not the other two. We'll check out those areas too.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:22 AM
 
1,190 posts, read 2,618,737 times
Reputation: 1412
In reading your post, I kept thinking "Lakewood" over and over again. I will admit to being biased as we have lived in LW for nearly 12 years. The one point where you will miss on your list is schools. (I think you already noted that). Even with the middle and high schools not the right fit for every family, it is still one of the most desirable locations in DFW. We went the private school route, but my daughter has tons of friends from all over (Woodrow, BL, Hockaday, Ursuline, and other Dallas/suburb publics) I don't think I would have any problem selling my home for more than we paid even with the mixed reviews on schools beyond elementary. (and yes, kids still walk or ride their bikes to the elementary school. No busses here)

When yo visit, I encourage you to spend some time here. I think you will love the area and the "coolness."
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