2014-2015 SAT scores by demographic group (Dallas, Fort Worth: credit, school district, college)

[Walter Benjamin]

As usual, the anomalies are interesting. What kind of Wheaties are being eaten by the white students at Garland, the Hispanic students at Lovejoy, and the African-American students at Keller? Of course, it could just be 'hidden' socioeconomic status...


Dallas, Texas Area School Information: 2014-2015 Average SAT Score by Demographic Group at Dallas, Texas area High Schools

1795 - Asian - Keller (Keller)
1676 - AA - Keller (Keller)
1636 - W - Keller (Keller)
1558 - His - Keller (Keller)

1718 - Asian - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1683 - His - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1675 - W - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1506 - AA - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)

1608 - W - Woodrow Wilson (Dallas)
1574 - W - WT White (Dallas)
1566 - W - Hillcrest (Dallas)

1725 - W - Garland (Garland)
1722 - W - Carroll (Carroll)
1719 - W - Plano West (Plano)
1715 - W - Coppell (Coppell)
1701 - W - Berkner (Richardson)
1698 - W - Flower Mound (Lewisville)
1688 - W - JJ Pearce (Richardson)
1682 - W - Paschal (Ft Worth)
1679 - W - Plano Senior (Plano)
1676 - W - Liberty (Frisco)

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Walter Benjamin

As usual, the anomalies are interesting. What kind of Wheaties are being eaten by the white students at Garland, the Hispanic students at Lovejoy, and the African-American students at Keller? Of course, it could just be 'hidden' socioeconomic status...


Dallas, Texas Area School Information: 2014-2015 Average SAT Score by Demographic Group at Dallas, Texas area High Schools

1795 - Asian - Keller (Keller)
1676 - AA - Keller (Keller)
1636 - W - Keller (Keller)
1558 - His - Keller (Keller)

1718 - Asian - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1683 - His - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1675 - W - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)
1506 - AA - Lovejoy (Lovejoy)

1608 - W - Woodrow Wilson (Dallas)
1574 - W - WT White (Dallas)
1566 - W - Hillcrest (Dallas)

1725 - W - Garland (Garland)
1722 - W - Carroll (Carroll)
1719 - W - Plano West (Plano)
1715 - W - Coppell (Coppell)
1701 - W - Berkner (Richardson)
1698 - W - Flower Mound (Lewisville)
1688 - W - JJ Pearce (Richardson)
1682 - W - Paschal (Ft Worth)
1679 - W - Plano Senior (Plano)
1676 - W - Liberty (Frisco)

For all of the folks on this forum who cite SAT scores as a method of measuring the academic quality of a school (EDS, I'm looking at you), are you now willing to admit that Garland educates white kids better than Southlake and Plano West?

Schools don't affect SAT scores much, unless of course they offer SAT prep courses. These data are really interesting, and I imagine there are many different things going on in regards to outliers. Even with a 95 percent confidence interval, one in twenty samples will be outside of the expected range. Therefore, we should expect some unexpected results when dealing with this many data points. I also bet there is some self selection and some other hidden factors at play as well.

I like these data because they make a lot of people on this forum who are obsessed with their public schools and use things like SAT scores to compare them look foolish. SAT scores tell us about the kids going there, not the quality of education offered at a school.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost

For all of the folks on this forum who cite SAT scores as a method of measuring the academic quality of a school (EDS, I'm looking at you), are you now willing to admit that Garland educates white kids better than Southlake and Plano West?

Schools don't affect SAT scores much, unless of course they offer SAT prep courses. These data are really interesting, and I imagine there are many different things going on in regards to outliers. Even with a 95 percent confidence interval, one in twenty samples will be outside of the expected range. Therefore, we should expect some unexpected results when dealing with this many data points. I also bet there is some self selection and some other hidden factors at play as well.

I like these data because they make a lot of people on this forum who are obsessed with their public schools and use things like SAT scores to compare them look foolish. SAT scores tell us about the kids going there, not the quality of education offered at a school.

1. The attention is flattering thank you.

2. Although not what you mean - I don't care if Garland educates white kids better than Southlake or Plano West. I've always been especially impressed with GISD generally, Richardson Pearce in particular and Fort Worth Paschal as well, although it has special status in FWISD making comparisons with other schools challenging.

3. As I've mentioned several times...........I don't really care if schools sporting high average SAT scores teach-up students towards those higher scores or if it's all due to self-selection metrics. What matters to me is schools that have higher performing students tend to keep that ball rolling for many years and SAT/ACT results highlight as much and I'd want my kids to attend schools like that.

The acid test is simple and considering academic outcomes only...............if forced to choose between Richardson Pearce HS or South Oak Cliff HS for your kids which would you pick? How about if we stipulate that SOCHS had uniformly better teachers, a uniformly better curriculum and better ancillaries but still much lower SAT scores?

4. So far as me looking foolish because you believe I support particular public schools for selfish or insular reasons.

A. I have two kids. The oldest attended public school during 1st and 2nd grades. My daughter never attended public schools. Both graduated from private elementary, middle and high schools. So between our 2 kids of 27 total PK-12 years 2 were spent in Plano public schools not quite 20 years ago.
B. We've lived in Dallas proper for several years..........between A and B, I have zero emotional allegiance to PISD, Southlake or any other public school district.

5. You mentioned, "you like these data" but you never provided any useful hard data. Instead you provide opinion stated as fact over and over as if you are trying to convince others that your claims are valid and you doubt yourself simulataneously.

A. Show me some data that indicates significant disconnects between school quality and SAT scores.
1. I don't think you can.
2. More importantly I don't care if you can because I don't care if there is a disconnect or not.

B. My thesis in this context is really simple. The SAT/ACT are the best quantifiable and broadly administered metrics we have for comparing student achievement across high schools. That's it.

[bencronin04]

Does it seem odd to anyone that Berkner, which rarely seems to get praise on the boards due to JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson, has whites outscoring JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson?

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by bencronin04

Does it seem odd to anyone that Berkner, which rarely seems to get praise on the boards due to JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson, has whites outscoring JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson?

Stood out to me.

[PlanoGirl]

That is interesting. Considering Berkner is my alma mater, it makes me happy to see them ranked a bit higher in something for once It was such a great school back in the day. Maybe their white population being the smallest of the 4 schools is a factor...?

Berkner- 22%
Richardson- 29%
Lake Highlands- 31%
Pearce- 49%

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by bencronin04

Does it seem odd to anyone that Berkner, which rarely seems to get praise on the boards due to JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson, has whites outscoring JJ, Lake Highlands and Richardson?

I wouldn't have expected as much frankly.

[bencronin04]

Looking back on the previous years average, it looks like they had a very strong year. Just thought is was interesting to see them outscoring some heavy hitters.

[TheOverdog]

Ok, here's my ranking of the 'best' high schools in the DFW area - to qualify, the SAT scores for all groups had to be above 1400 (TX avg is 1419), then by 'free lunch percentage from 2014' from schooldigger, and finally the least range between the highest and lowest test scores as delimited by demographics.
For example, Decatur, and from schooldigger.com, under students, the free lunch percentage for 2014 is 33%. 1456 W Decatur (Decatur) 1436 His Decatur (Decatur)

There are obviously still problems with this, as there is no indication of how many students took the SAT for comparison, but it's a pretty good metric for the schools' doing a good and consistent job of teaching across multiple demographic and socio-economic groups. I also didn't take max SAT scores into comparison. For example, Denton Guyer's 1620 for Asians is quite a bit below the 1903 for Flour Mound Asians. I did that partially because for some of these ethnic groups, the number of actual students is pretty small for example about 60 total Asians in Highland Park. 60 out of 2000 total students is not enough to be representative of the educational level for all students who take the SATs.

My opinion: the real standouts are Decatur, McKinney North, Denton Guyer, Allen, Frisco Heritage, and Keller. Laggards are Plano Senior, JJ Pierce, Coppell, and Flour Mound.

High Free Lunch -- Greater than 20%
1) Decatur - 33% free lunch, 1% difference between scores.
2) McKinney North - 27%, 13%
3) Denton Guyer - 21%, 13%
4) Keller Central - 20%, 16%
5) Plano East 28%, 20%
6) JJ Pierce 30%, 24%




Mid Free lunch - 10%-18% free lunch
1) Allen 15% free lunch, 17% difference
2) Frisco Heritage - 14% free lunch, 17% difference
3) McKinney Boyd - 16% free lunch, 19% difference
4) Centennial Frisco 10% free lunch, 17% difference
5) Frico High: 15% free lunch, 20% difference
6) Plano West 12% free lunch, 21% difference
7) Frisco Liberty 10% free lunch, 22% difference
8) Plano Senior 18% free lunch, 24% difference
9) Coppell 10% free lunch, 23% difference



Low Free Lunch -- 6% or less
1) Keller 5% free lunch, 13% difference
2) Highland Park 0% free lunch, 10% difference
3) Lovejoy 3% free lunch, 17% difference
4) Southlake Carroll - 2% free lunch, 16% difference
5) Flower Mound 3% free lunch, 19% difference
6) Flower Mound Marcus - 6% free lunch, 24% difference

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

Ok, here's my ranking of the 'best' high schools in the DFW area - to qualify, the SAT scores for all groups had to be above 1400 (TX avg is 1419), then by 'free lunch percentage from 2014' from schooldigger, and finally the least range between the highest and lowest test scores as delimited by demographics.
For example, Decatur, and from schooldigger.com, under students, the free lunch percentage for 2014 is 33%. 1456 W Decatur (Decatur) 1436 His Decatur (Decatur)

There are obviously still problems with this, as there is no indication of how many students took the SAT for comparison, but it's a pretty good metric for the schools' doing a good and consistent job of teaching across multiple demographic and socio-economic groups. I also didn't take max SAT scores into comparison. For example, Denton Guyer's 1620 for Asians is quite a bit below the 1903 for Flour Mound Asians. I did that partially because for some of these ethnic groups, the number of actual students is pretty small for example about 60 total Asians in Highland Park. 60 out of 2000 total students is not enough to be representative of the educational level for all students who take the SATs.

My opinion: the real standouts are Decatur, McKinney North, Denton Guyer, Allen, Frisco Heritage, and Keller. Laggards are Plano Senior, JJ Pierce, Coppell, and Flour Mound.

High Free Lunch -- Greater than 20%
1) Decatur - 33% free lunch, 1% difference between scores.
2) McKinney North - 27%, 13%
3) Denton Guyer - 21%, 13%
4) Keller Central - 20%, 16%
5) Plano East 28%, 20%
6) JJ Pierce 30%, 24%




Mid Free lunch - 10%-18% free lunch
1) Allen 15% free lunch, 17% difference
2) Frisco Heritage - 14% free lunch, 17% difference
3) McKinney Boyd - 16% free lunch, 19% difference
4) Centennial Frisco 10% free lunch, 17% difference
5) Frico High: 15% free lunch, 20% difference
6) Plano West 12% free lunch, 21% difference
7) Frisco Liberty 10% free lunch, 22% difference
8) Plano Senior 18% free lunch, 24% difference
9) Coppell 10% free lunch, 23% difference



Low Free Lunch -- 6% or less
1) Keller 5% free lunch, 13% difference
2) Highland Park 0% free lunch, 10% difference
3) Lovejoy 3% free lunch, 17% difference
4) Southlake Carroll - 2% free lunch, 16% difference
5) Flower Mound 3% free lunch, 19% difference
6) Flower Mound Marcus - 6% free lunch, 24% difference

I now have this image of a giant "flour mound" in my mind.

A few years ago I ran a simple regression of SAT score vs. % economically disadvantaged. I could rerun that and list schools that were far above/below projected. Only problem is that it probably breaks down a bit at the extreme ends, so the HP's and such of the world might show up higher than maybe they "should" be.

I don't want to get in the middle of the SAT argument between EDS and Wittgenstein's ghost. I get both of their points, and agree a bit with both of them. I think in general terms we all know that more affluent schools crank out higher test scores for a variety of reasons. Whether or not a specific school is "better" for one's child (as in "they'll be better prepared for college and eventual success in life") is a question that often varies for one's specific child as well as other factors. We all can generally tell a Pearce (high scores but sizable non-affluent student body) deserves a lot of credit, and a Keller, for example (historically lower scores with a more affluent student body) maybe notasmuch.

And yes, a lot of this is splitting hairs. Kids at almost any of the "Usual Suspects" schools that get discussed here are well-positioned for post-secondary success.