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First of all, these are all great areas, so you can't go wrong with any of them. Since you're renting for a year or longer, your decision today is not as critical as it may seem since PH and the Park Cities are adjacent to one another. You can always choose one area to rent and see if works for you. If you decide to build in the other location, it would not be a big deal at all since one area is just a few miles away from the other.
Assuming budget is no issue (new custom construction in UP starts around $2M; HP $2.5-$3M; PH $1.5M or so), I would choose to live in UP. If you were to live near CTK, the commute to ESD/Hockaday would only be about 10-15 minutes.
UP has a great neighborhood feel and there are always children out playing. On some nice days, I've literally seen dozens of kids out playing and there are always children walking/riding their bike around the neighborhood by themselves. I really have not seen this anywhere else in Dallas. True, most kids will go to the public schools, since HPISD is one of the best in the State and most people move to UP specifically for the schools. However, I see plenty of yard signs for private schools, so there are a good number of people who choose private. Living in UP could provide two social circles - one for the neighborhood and another one centered around the private school you ultimately choose. HP is also great, but it's further away from the private schools and there are more families with children in UP.
The city service are great, with UP having its own police, fire, sanitation, ect.. The average police response time these days is 2 minutes 45 seconds - which is really incredible and I don't think a private security force could beat that even if you were paying for it. And from a financial perspective, Park Cities real estate is always going to be a solid return (property taxes are also almost 1/3 less than Dallas).
That said, PH is also a great area and I know many people who love it. It's less congested and the lots/streets are much larger on average. There are some parts (the estate sections, in particular), that are incredibly scenic and heavily wooded, which may be more reminiscent of the east coast.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll love any of these areas.
I am curious, Lakeside, whether you have any specific experience in the "two social circles" aspect of your point. It sounds fantastic in theory. But as TC80 and I have pointed out, it is harder to do than it sounds. I live in N Oak Cliff and send kids to private school in East Dallas and we have the juggling act of maintaining school and neighborhood relationships both for us and for our kids and I am not gonna lie - it can be exhausting and time consuming. We do it because we feel it is important for our kids to have meaningful relationships with kids at their school outside the school day (and actually we get along fantastically with almost all the families we have met from their school - we don't just endure it for the kids' sake), and our friendships from the neighborhood are a decade old in many cases and are very important to us to maintain. But if I moved to town today, I don't think I would have the energy to create and maintain two social circles in a new city. I would probably just default to the school-oriented one.
This isn't to say it can't be done. We do it. My wife stays home, which helps immensely. But it really isn't going to be this effortless thing where you just happen into strong neighborhood relationships in Park Cities and with the families from private school. This is part of the appeal of Park Cities. There is so much overlap in social, work, and kid circles when you use the public schools that it just makes things easy. It still might end up being one of the best places to live, but I think it's unreasonable to move there with an unrealistic set of social expectations.
I am curious, Lakeside, whether you have any specific experience in the "two social circles" aspect of your point. It sounds fantastic in theory. But as TC80 and I have pointed out, it is harder to do than it sounds. I live in N Oak Cliff and send kids to private school in East Dallas and we have the juggling act of maintaining school and neighborhood relationships both for us and for our kids and I am not gonna lie - it can be exhausting and time consuming. We do it because we feel it is important for our kids to have meaningful relationships with kids at their school outside the school day (and actually we get along fantastically with almost all the families we have met from their school - we don't just endure it for the kids' sake), and our friendships from the neighborhood are a decade old in many cases and are very important to us to maintain. But if I moved to town today, I don't think I would have the energy to create and maintain two social circles in a new city. I would probably just default to the school-oriented one.
This isn't to say it can't be done. We do it. My wife stays home, which helps immensely. But it really isn't going to be this effortless thing where you just happen into strong neighborhood relationships in Park Cities and with the families from private school. This is part of the appeal of Park Cities. There is so much overlap in social, work, and kid circles when you use the public schools that it just makes things easy. It still might end up being one of the best places to live, but I think it's unreasonable to move there with an unrealistic set of social expectations.
I don't have personal experience since our kids are young and they will be going to HPISD. The public schools seem to be a large part of the social system in the Park Cities, but I do think there are other opportunities out there. At the very least, chances are there are numerous similar aged kids on the same block. I agree that the private schools will probably be the main social circle. One, two or zero social circles is a personal choice and the OP seems like they are willing to have more than one, so to each his own.
At the very least, chances are there are numerous similar aged kids on the same block
If OP's kids were little, I'd be inclined to agree with you on this point as mom could join the early childhood PTA's and do the playgroup thing. The 9-year-old may benefit a little; the 11-year-old certainly will not. By middle school, they're not playing with street friends anymore. Even by late elementary school, the competitive cheer/dance teams, soccer leagues, etc are taking up the after school play time most days.
Everyone, thank you so much for your thoughtful responses! You've provided incredibly helpful insights. As I predicted, there isn't one right answer. We like the look, feel, community, safety and liveliness of the Park Cities but would only want to pay the 30-40% premium to PH and sign up for the longer school commute if we stood to benefit from these qualities. By the time we completed construction of a home, our daughters would be 15 and 12 and may have outgrown the age of neighborhood play. To some degree, this decision just as much boils down to where my wife and I would want to live after the kids are off to college. Do we want more land that will afford us greater design flexibility, yard, privacy and a swimable pool or the beauty, consistency, community and walkability of the Park Cities? I'm sure we'll have a greater sense for what we value most after renting for a few months. It's also worth mentioning that liked the beauty and natural landscape of Bluffview. It just seemed a little small and would certainly rule out having a neighborhood.
Is the general consensus that we should rule out Old HP? It seems like folks are advocating more for UP and New HP given their easier access to ESD, younger demos, etc. It's a lovely looking area with wider streets and larger lots than other areas in the Park Cities (of course at a price!) but if there are very few kids in this area and the drive up north would grow old very quickly, then we'll rule area this out.
Lastly, do folks have an opinion on which areas in the Park Cities to avoid with regard to the flight pattern noise out of Love Field?
As odds of Dallas/Park Cities area folks driving to northern suburbs for work are getting higher than Collin County folks driving to Dallas, we may see more buyers opting to live somewhere in middle, specially if both spouses need to commute. I see it as a positive sign for Richardson, Plano and North Dallas.
As odds of Dallas/Park Cities area folks driving to northern suburbs for work are getting higher than Collin County folks driving to Dallas, we may see more buyers opting to live somewhere in middle, specially if both spouses need to commute. I see it as a positive sign for Richardson, Plano and North Dallas.
The last time I looked right at 2.5 times as many CoCo+Denton Co. residents worked in Dallas County than the reverse.
Everyone, thank you so much for your thoughtful responses! You've provided incredibly helpful insights. As I predicted, there isn't one right answer. We like the look, feel, community, safety and liveliness of the Park Cities but would only want to pay the 30-40% premium to PH and sign up for the longer school commute if we stood to benefit from these qualities. By the time we completed construction of a home, our daughters would be 15 and 12 and may have outgrown the age of neighborhood play. To some degree, this decision just as much boils down to where my wife and I would want to live after the kids are off to college. Do we want more land that will afford us greater design flexibility, yard, privacy and a swimable pool or the beauty, consistency, community and walkability of the Park Cities? I'm sure we'll have a greater sense for what we value most after renting for a few months. It's also worth mentioning that liked the beauty and natural landscape of Bluffview. It just seemed a little small and would certainly rule out having a neighborhood.
Is the general consensus that we should rule out Old HP? It seems like folks are advocating more for UP and New HP given their easier access to ESD, younger demos, etc. It's a lovely looking area with wider streets and larger lots than other areas in the Park Cities (of course at a price!) but if there are very few kids in this area and the drive up north would grow old very quickly, then we'll rule area this out.
Lastly, do folks have an opinion on which areas in the Park Cities to avoid with regard to the flight pattern noise out of Love Field?
Thanks again!
There are lots of kids throughout HPISD, includinf Old
HP. The commute to ESD would be 15-20 min so I would not rule it out at all.
I live close to Mockingbird and the Tollway and am not bothered by airplane noise. Inhave friends further south, on the 4500 block of Bordeaux that have complained about it. I dont think it is a big issue for most people.
I am just shocked at the prices of some of the spec homes in the southwest part of HP. There have been several that have sold recently at "normal" prices in the $2.2-$2.5m range, but there are several others on larger lots (not huge...like 0.25- 0.3 acre) that are listed for $4-$6M. These are not what I would consider "estate" properties, just nice, new construction on a nice in-line 75-foot lot. I just son't get it.
Demand and supply. If a house provides prestige, convenient location, pretty neighborhood, good city services, wealthy neighbors, excellent public schools, access to fine dinning/shopping, guaranteed resale with crazy appreciation, new construction with trendy finishes, I wouldn't be surprised if they raised those prices in next three months.
Demand and supply. If a house provides prestige, convenient location, pretty neighborhood, good city services, wealthy neighbors, excellent public schools, access to fine dinning/shopping, guaranteed resale with crazy appreciation, new construction with trendy finishes, I wouldn't be surprised if they raised those prices in next three months.
The $4-6M market is not that strong so I don't see those prices going up. I think the spec builders have overbuilt a fleet of $5M-range homes in the Park Cities and are going to take some big price cuts to sell most of those properties. To be clear, it's not like there are 50 $5M spec homes sitting there, probably more like 5-7. But they're sitting. And most people at that price point probably want custom, not a spec.
Sweet spot for new construction is under $2.75-$3.0M.
Last edited by TurtleCreek80; 03-28-2017 at 07:28 AM..
The $4-6M market is not that strong so I don't see those prices going up. I think the spec builders have overbuilt a fleet of $5M-range homes in the Park Cities and are going to take some big price cuts to sell most of those properties. To be clear, it's not like there are 50 $5M spec homes sitting there, probably more like 5-7. But they're sitting. And most people at that price point probably want custom, not a spec.
Sweet spot for new construction is under $2.75-$3.0M.
You are right. There is definitely not excess demand for $5M plus spec homes on smallish lots.. There are quite a few of them thougn (imho 5-7 is a lot in this price range). Even the less expensive ones (2 recently on small lots on Southern near Bradfield) had some teouble selling. They were originally listed $2.6 and sold after several months for, I think, about 2.3. Those are numbers I can more easiky understsnd though...it's the glut of $5m+ on small lots thst doesnt make sense to me.
I have also seen a few lots that were originally listed as $4-5M new construction now re-listed as lots for $1.6-2M. I do think at that price point most want custom.
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