Anyone around in Dallas when this happened? (Houston, Plano: apartment, lofts)

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

No, the idea that prioritizing commutes to Seagoville (or Houston, or Plano) from downtown is what is nuts. Look, all the jobs and people moved up there so building a freeway just wasted a bunch of money.

That's what people fail to comprehend. They really do not understand how much suburban sprawl has killed the city of Dallas. We're at the point now where Plano and several other suburbs are no longer dependent on the city. So why should we cater to the few looking to bypass the city center? I-345 was built in a completely different era when Downtown was the center of everything. It will most likely be removed and either converted to a city street or sunk below ground with a Klyde Warren-style park above it.

The idea that a company relocation to Plano or Frisco is great for the city is absurd. People shouldn't have to commute that far north, especially if you live south of Downtown. We need jobs in Downtown, the ones that will want to be in an urban center as opposed to a suburban office campus.

[justsomeguy]

Where/what exactly is I-345? Looks like it runs N-S parallel to I-75 on the Google map? Is it the same thing as 366 that runs E-W through downtown?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by DTXman34

A couple of points:

1. Back then, Downtown was bustling! That's sort of the point though -- congestion is actually a good thing for the economic health of downtown. There's not a single successful downtown where you can zip out of it in 5 minutes. Interstates were only intended to connect regions, not shoved through urban cores. The result of doing that was one major factor in Downtown's decline. Downtown's economic health trumps someone's desire to bypass it. When City Council votes on it, I highly doubt they will take in consideration the people looking to bypass downtown. They're more concerned about people working, living, and playing in Downtown.

2. The idea that someone would have to go all the way out to LBJ is ridiculous. There are several underutilized city streets. Traffic would spread out throughout the city grid and also help some declined areas rebound with the increase of traffic. Having everyone on the interstate doesn't help businesses in the city, especially if they're on underutilized streets.

3. Dallas can no longer compete against its suburbs as a car dependent city. Companies looking to build suburban office campuses will always choose places like Plano or Frisco over Dallas. Dallas can no longer act like a suburb when places like Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc. are much more desirable places with "better" public schools. So Dallas has to capitalize on one of the few strengths it has over the suburbs which is urbanism. Plano & Frisco lacks the urbanism, so DT Dallas is one of the few areas where a company such as Amazon would want to relocate. Problem is -- DT Dallas has to compete against other urban centers with far superior public transit and walkability. Removal of I-345 is one step closer to making the urban core more vibrant.

1. Until your side of this can figure out how to.......
A). Effectively divert/reroute the 200,000+ cars that use 345 currently, and no popping off that 200,000 cars can be effectively diverted onto current surface streets, that's just a flat out lie thrown out there by the guy who got all this going. We have a huge intermodal transfer facility + lots of warehousing south of I-30 you want to divert big trucks form 345 onto downtown surface streets? Come on let's be pragmatic.
B). How to pay for it. The guy who got all this started completely lied about what it would cost to remove and repurpose 345.............remember the $90 million claim floated by that joker?

Responsible removal of 345 will happen only if one or more of the following happens.
1). Something to replace 345 is built underground...........apparently TXDOT is studying this option.
2). We develop and build a significant subway or elevated train system - AIN'T HAPPENING.
3). Someone figures out the flying car/tiny personal aircraft problem.

__________________

No one is going to argue that Vancouver, the most freeway-less city I can think of, is anything but beautiful. They also have the worst traffic in Canada. And some of the worst travel time per mile stats of any medium sized city in this hemisphere.

Like it or not one of Dallas' key advantages relative to its peers is ease of getting around by auto.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by octo

Yeah, I was around and it feels like it was just last year not 16. Uh, I'm really getting old!

I thought the same thing. Boeing opened it's Dreamliner assembly plant in 2016 in South Carolina that got alot of publicity. Seems like South Carolina beat out the Metroplex (or another location in Texas) to get that assembly plant. That's probably what we were thinking of.

Boeing: Boeing in South Carolina

[octo]

Choking the downtown core is a poor and cheap solution to the traffic requirements. This should be routed underground like the stretch under Klyde Warren Park. Isn't there some childless billionaire in Dallas who can blow his $$ on burying that awful road noose under a pretty park with his name immortalized?

[Taynxtlvl]

Originally Posted by DTXman34

A couple of points:

1. Back then, Downtown was bustling! That's sort of the point though -- congestion is actually a good thing for the economic health of downtown. There's not a single successful downtown where you can zip out of it in 5 minutes. Interstates were only intended to connect regions, not shoved through urban cores. The result of doing that was one major factor in Downtown's decline. Downtown's economic health trumps someone's desire to bypass it. When City Council votes on it, I highly doubt they will take in consideration the people looking to bypass downtown. They're more concerned about people working, living, and playing in Downtown.

2. The idea that someone would have to go all the way out to LBJ is ridiculous. There are several underutilized city streets. Traffic would spread out throughout the city grid and also help some declined areas rebound with the increase of traffic. Having everyone on the interstate doesn't help businesses in the city, especially if they're on underutilized streets.

3. Dallas can no longer compete against its suburbs as a car dependent city. Companies looking to build suburban office campuses will always choose places like Plano or Frisco over Dallas. Dallas can no longer act like a suburb when places like Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc. are much more desirable places with "better" public schools. So Dallas has to capitalize on one of the few strengths it has over the suburbs which is urbanism. Plano & Frisco lacks the urbanism, so DT Dallas is one of the few areas where a company such as Amazon would want to relocate. Problem is -- DT Dallas has to compete against other urban centers with far superior public transit and walkability. Removal of I-345 is one step closer to making the urban core more vibrant.

Very, very true.

• transit

Dallas should look at it's past to build smartly and in turn become the world class city it has potential to be. Step one is Transit. The Dallas News put out an article about how Dart has so much potential but it has to be actually addressed and can't be pushed to the back burner any longer. The true world class cities all have good transit and it is imperative to any cities core. As land get pricier and pricier in Collin and Denton county and commutes longer and longer the land south of downtown is going to get really attractive. Unfortunately Dallas has neglected parts of downtown and south Dallas for much too long and it is going to bite them, and already has as company after company have moved to suburbia land and along with them their precious tax bases. Upgrade Dart. Follow in the paths of Toronto, San Fran, Denver and others they all have good ridership.

• Schools

Schools/Southern Dallas Upgrade
Understandably people want their kids to go to good schools and when the schools are not stellar people will do what they have to in order for their children to go to a good school. As the trinity projects take of and gentrification starts impacting east and south Dallas the city should work hard to improve these areas. making them more desirable in general. Distance wise it's so much closer than say prosper or McKinney. as companies move in the infrastructure would improve across the area. IKEA has done a great thing in Grand Prairie and I suspect that development will spread eastward, but it needs to be smart.

Downtown Dallas has so much potential I hope it is realized right now Dallas is good but it could be so much better. It's such a lopsided area in a lot of ways.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by turf3

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was here before the Elevated Central Expressway was built. In those days it took half an hour to travel a mile through downtown where it now takes 5 minutes. Nowadays it would probably take an hour.

Totally agree. I also remember the old 75 and how horrible traffic was before it was widened and elevated. Going backwards with roads in a city as large as Dallas would be asinine.

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by EDS_

1. Until your side of this can figure out how to.......
A). Effectively divert/reroute the 200,000+ cars that use 345 currently, and no popping off that 200,000 cars can be effectively diverted onto current surface streets, that's just a flat out lie thrown out there by the guy who got all this going. We have a huge intermodal transfer facility + lots of warehousing south of I-30 you want to divert big trucks form 345 onto downtown surface streets? Come on let's be pragmatic.
B). How to pay for it. The guy who got all this started completely lied about what it would cost to remove and repurpose 345.............remember the $90 million claim floated by that joker?

Responsible removal of 345 will happen only if one or more of the following happens.
1). Something to replace 345 is built underground...........apparently TXDOT is studying this option.
2). We develop and build a significant subway or elevated train system - AIN'T HAPPENING.
3). Someone figures out the flying car/tiny personal aircraft problem.

__________________

No one is going to argue that Vancouver, the most freeway-less city I can think of, is anything but beautiful. They also have the worst traffic in Canada. And some of the worst travel time per mile stats of any medium sized city in this hemisphere.

Like it or not one of Dallas' key advantages relative to its peers is ease of getting around by auto.

I do agree building I-345 underground with a park above would gain the most support.

Dallas is actually losing that key advantage. The suburbs are winning in that category and with the inability to annex additional land, Dallas's only option is to build up. It can no longer compete as a car-dependent, suburban city. Plano & Frisco are better as suburbs than Dallas is. Increasing density, walkability, and public transit is Dallas's future if it the city wants to remain competitive.

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

Totally agree. I also remember the old 75 and how horrible traffic was before it was widened and elevated. Going backwards with roads in a city as large as Dallas would be asinine.

With all due respect, you live out in the suburbs so your opinion is meaningless. We're not going to destroy our city and our neighborhoods just so you as a SUBURBANITE can drive through our city like it's a drive thru at McDonalds.

[turf3]

Well, my house is not in the suburbs, so you can't accuse me of that.

I lived in Lakewood when the Central elevated was built. I know what downtown was like then, and it was not "bustling"; hardly anyone went downtown when Northpark was so much more convenient and without parking problems. Businesses were moving out of downtown just as fast as they could find space away from the central core.

You are conflating downtown Dallas in the 1940s when the population of the city was maybe 150,000, with downtown Dallas in the early 70s when the elevated was built, and the population was around 600,000, and downtown Dallas today with the population of the city well over a million.

Please tell me how I can go from Lovers Lane and Central Expressway to Kleberg without either going on the Central elevated, or spending many times longer on surface streets.