Amazon HDQ2---if DFW, then where? (Dallas, Irving: how much, where to live, zoning)

[turf3]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

I believe Amazon said the 10-year buildout would be 50,000 employees. The initial group much smaller, maybe 10k? So since they're not relocating 50k to start with, it stands to reason that thousands of good jobs would go to locals. Or get more local college grads to move back here vs going to SF, Seattle, Austin, etc.

The average pay at Amazon HQ, like Toyota/ JCP/ etc local HQs, is right around $100k so even the jobs that pay 50% below average like Admins are still making the median wage for DFW. HQ jobs are good gigs if you can stand the stress and politics.

Let's face it, the whole "second HQ" deal is a bunch of BS. Real decisions are still going to be made at the real HQ. Ten bucks says what Amazon will open in their "second HQ" will be a coding sweatshop with thousands of H1B workers churning out code.


If they do put it in North Texas, I sincerely hope it's way, way, out from the center of the city so it won't affect me too much. How about Jacksboro or Sherman?

[HP48G]

Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s

We've crossed into a new frontier of short sightedness here on this forum. Now we have people actively hoping for negative economic news because they're so car addicted all they care about is traffic. It's... mindblowing.

If you don't like a vibrant economy, you should move. Albuquerque? Pyongyang? I, for one, will enjoy the benefits that come along with a tight labor market.

I agree, It is bizarre to see posts hoping for stagnation, no growth and lack of opportunity. Although it seems it’s mostly driven by a bitterness about having to compete for jobs with people they deem as inferior.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by HP48G

I agree, It is bizarre to see posts hoping for stagnation, no growth and lack of opportunity. Although it seems it’s mostly driven by a bitterness about having to compete for jobs with people they deem as inferior.

I had a professor in graduate school back in Hadean times, and I've heard the same for others as well, who called that phenomenon, "good old days syndrome."

IMO it's less worry about job competition and more abject dislike for change.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

While I agree on the traffic/housing being impacted negatively by Amazon, is it not selfish to not want them here? You may not need a job from them but i guarantee that there are people here in the metroplex who desperately need jobs and Amazon being here would be a godsend for them. People need to get out of their cozy little bubble around here

No, it isn't selfish at all. Why should I wish for people already here to be negatively impacted by a massive influx of people?

Originally Posted by turf3

Let's face it, the whole "second HQ" deal is a bunch of BS. Real decisions are still going to be made at the real HQ. Ten bucks says what Amazon will open in their "second HQ" will be a coding sweatshop with thousands of H1B workers churning out code.

If they do put it in North Texas, I sincerely hope it's way, way, out from the center of the city so it won't affect me too much. How about Jacksboro or Sherman?

THIS.


Almost NONE of those jobs will go to locals. They'll rope in sweatshop coders from the usual suspects (Tech Mahindra, Infosys, Wipro, Tata, Cognizant, and any number of smaller body shops), drive down developer wages in the area by stubbornly refusing to cross the $50/hr mark for perpetual 6 month contracts, and their workforce will most likely be 70%+ Indian males under the age of 35, most of whom will be married and who will be bringing their H4 wives with them.


If the Trump administration fails to do away with the H4 EAD, a significant percentage of those H4 wives will join the workforce as well. That's 75k more cars on the road almost overnight, and all of those people will need somewhere to live. Most will have children as well, so get ready for some overcrowded elementary school classrooms and for significant zoning disruption in popular suburbs.


Any way I look at it, I see negatives for people already here.

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by HP48G

I agree, It is bizarre to see posts hoping for stagnation, no growth and lack of opportunity. Although it seems it’s mostly driven by a bitterness about having to compete for jobs with people they deem as inferior.

Exactly!! It's the same people who always mention "H1B Visas". Something about foreigners taking jobs, typically Indians, that some Texans oppose vehemently.

Edit to add: I didn't care whether Amazon came here or not. But now I hope DFW wins, I'd love to have more foreigners in Dallas! It'll **** off the racists even more.

[f4shionablecha0s]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Almost NONE of those jobs will go to locals. They'll rope in sweatshop coders from the usual suspects (Tech Mahindra, Infosys, Wipro, Tata, Cognizant, and any number of smaller body shops), drive down developer wages in the area by stubbornly refusing to cross the $50/hr mark for perpetual 6 month contracts, and their workforce will most likely be 70%+ Indian males under the age of 35, most of whom will be married and who will be bringing their H4 wives with them.


If the Trump administration fails to do away with the H4 EAD, a significant percentage of those H4 wives will join the workforce as well. That's 75k more cars on the road almost overnight, and all of those people will need somewhere to live. Most will have children as well, so get ready for some overcrowded elementary school classrooms and for significant zoning disruption in popular suburbs.


Any way I look at it, I see negatives for people already here.

Even if none of the jobs went to locals (and that's a huge load of horse ****) the transplants will shop and do business here in Dallas. Gotta buy groceries and clothes, no? It's good for everyone in the economy. Those children you hate going to your precious suburban schools will eventually become well educated workers here in Dallas as well.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s

Even if none of the jobs went to locals (and that's a huge load of horse ****) the transplants will shop and do business here in Dallas. Gotta buy groceries and clothes, no? It's good for everyone in the economy. Those children you hate going to your precious suburban schools will eventually become well educated workers here in Dallas as well.

I live in Richardson, so nah...they won't be moving to my area. Transplants like shiny new neighborhoods. They'll be heading directly to Frisco, McKinney, Prosper, etc.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

No, it isn't selfish at all. Why should I wish for people already here to be negatively impacted by a massive influx of people?




THIS.


Almost NONE of those jobs will go to locals. They'll rope in sweatshop coders from the usual suspects (Tech Mahindra, Infosys, Wipro, Tata, Cognizant, and any number of smaller body shops), drive down developer wages in the area by stubbornly refusing to cross the $50/hr mark for perpetual 6 month contracts, and their workforce will most likely be 70%+ Indian males under the age of 35, most of whom will be married and who will be bringing their H4 wives with them.


If the Trump administration fails to do away with the H4 EAD, a significant percentage of those H4 wives will join the workforce as well. That's 75k more cars on the road almost overnight, and all of those people will need somewhere to live. Most will have children as well, so get ready for some overcrowded elementary school classrooms and for significant zoning disruption in popular suburbs.


Any way I look at it, I see negatives for people already here.

Goodness i had no idea they were just printing and handing out H1B’s and EAD’s out here.

I’m being sarcastic btw...

I’m usually with you but, i’ll disagree on this one. There’s nothing easy about the HIB process and it isn’t as automatic as you are implying. The OBAMA administration ( shocker, i know) already instituted quite a few humps to that process and the Trump one will probably see to it that those are removed and replaced with nothing- which will result in making the process even more convoluted and delayed. Many companies, especially the large ones that can afford to, are choosing not to deal with that headache and have been for a while. I don’t see Amazon doing what you describe after touting local jobs as a selling point. At least not right away.

Whether we like it or not, H1B’s exist because they are needed. Tech jobs have just very recently become ‘cool’ to local kids. (And in all honesty, most of those kids are the children and grandchildren of the people we are discussing). Immigrants of all stripes have been ‘driving down’ wages for locals for centuries. One can replace ‘Indians’ and ‘IT’ for any number of nationalities and industries over the entire history of the US.

Until local kids gain sustained interest in STEM into college ‘Asian males under 35’ will continue to dominate the workforce in that industry. Those that want to change that should have their kids hit the books as hard as immigrant parents have their kids do. And that’s usually pretty hard.

All that said; I just dont see Amazon locating here.

[Bp25]

If people are not allowed to come here, the jobs will go to them wherever they live. Software development is not a job that's tied to a geographical location and the bar to entry is not very high either. I don't know how someone will prevent a newcomer skilled in latest and greatest language from coming in to the field and keep the salary lower.

Some people are perpetually bitter about it, that's not going to change the economics of it.

BTW, H4 EAD is not for all H4, it's only for spouses of people who are in the last stage of their green card processing. They would have gotten their work authorization soon anyway. Stopping the H4 EAD will just delay the inevitable.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

I live in Richardson, so nah...they won't be moving to my area. Transplants like shiny new neighborhoods. They'll be heading directly to Frisco, McKinney, Prosper, etc.

That's completely at odds with Amazon's desire for an urban campus. I really don't think 50k workers are going to commute from Prosper and Anna to downtown Dallas (or "Midtown" LBJ or the old Cowboys stadium site in Irving....)