Plano Tomorrow Plan (Dallas, Garland, Mesquite: apartments, condos, new house)

[mqmercado]

Can anyone tell me more about the Plano Tomorrow plan? What is the plan? What are the pros and cons?

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/c...tical-dynamics

[Soccernerd]

I’m sure the plan itself exists in full in PDF somewhere online.

We only very recently moved to North Texas, so I can’t comment on the longtime politics and planning for Plano. DH and I both work at Legacy in Plano. I would say that gives us some sort of stake and reason to be interested. Plano is mostly built out at this point with low-density development being dominant. There are some taller structures in Legacy but, as far as I know, that’s the extent of it. The new Collin Creek development will feature apartments and condos.

When suburbs are new and are quickly expanding, there is plenty of tax revenue to keep things in the government growing. Once a suburb is built out, revenue from growth ends. City infrastructure continues to age requiring more money. Simultaneously, people want to live in new houses and move further out depressing home values.

We can see this play out clearly in the Dallas suburbs. Places such as Mesquite or Garland once had brand-new homes in which everyone wanted to live. The city boomed and was a desirable place to live. After a while, people started moving to other suburbs (i.e. Plano). Plano is now pretty much built out and is trying to stay relevant amidst competition from Frisco and McKinney. It’s kind of the natural cycle of things.

I suspect that, in twenty years, there will be a "Frisco Tomorrow" plan.

[f4shionablecha0s]

Suburban style tract housing requires a lot of infrastructure - streets in front of each house, water distribution, fire/police to serve a huge area, etc. But it doesn't generate much tax revenue over the long run. Plano's neighborhoods are aging and lots of this infrastructure needs to be replaced but the houses simply don't generate enough tax. They can either let the city decay and turn into Mesquite or they can transition to more dense development that will generate enough tax to pay the bills.

The NIMBYs that don't want apartment dwellers to live in their precious suburb don't realize that it's the apartment dwellers that will save the city.

[aggie972]

Comparing Plano to Mesquite is a little off the mark.

1.) Even when Mesquite was shiny and new, it was still solidly middle class. It was never an upper middle class area like West Plano is.

2.) Plano has companies like Toyota, Liberty Mutual, JP Morgan Chase, etc. adding to the tax base.

3.) Yes, Plano is obviously aware of the risk of suburban decay, and they are trying to plan intelligently for it. Plano is centrally located along the DNT unlike Mesquite. A large company with headquarters on Legacy can house both young single workers living in uptown and older married workers commuting from shiny new houses in Prosper. Plano schools are strong, and the city has good retail options, as well as plenty of luxury apartments for people who want to live/work/play all in one place.

Plano has had more residents than Mesquite since the 80s, so it's not exactly a shiny and new suburb anyway. If we're talking about suburbs at risk of losing their luster in 20 years, I'd be much more worried about the ones that are currently full of shiny and new houses. A city like Plano that has already built a top tier school district, has the DNT running through it, and has attracted the HQ of a world class employer like Toyota has a lot less to worry about.

[usc619]

Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s

Suburban style tract housing requires a lot of infrastructure - streets in front of each house, water distribution, fire/police to serve a huge area, etc. But it doesn't generate much tax revenue over the long run. Plano's neighborhoods are aging and lots of this infrastructure needs to be replaced but the houses simply don't generate enough tax. They can either let the city decay and turn into Mesquite or they can transition to more dense development that will generate enough tax to pay the bills.

The NIMBYs that don't want apartment dwellers to live in their precious suburb don't realize that it's the apartment dwellers that will save the city.

meeh....you can keep them apartments. Plano is desirable because it isn't overrun by cheap development

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by mqmercado

Can anyone tell me more about the Plano Tomorrow plan? What is the plan? What are the pros and cons?

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/c...tical-dynamics

Just like people, towns go through midlife crisis as well. It’s a healthy debate to figure out how we want to grow. Google this plan. Try to understand both sides of the argument before making up your mind. Once you do, advocate for that but keep an open mind so you can let good ideas come in. It’s not a two party issue, all sides have good ideas, we just need to find how to incorporate them together for a long term vision.

It’s good for rest of the county to be involved as well as Plano sets the rhythm for other towns and what happens here effects prosperity of whole county.

[NP78]

Originally Posted by usc619

meeh....you can keep them apartments. Plano is desirable because it isn't overrun by cheap development

Plano already has lots of apartments.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by Soccernerd

I suspect that, in twenty years, there will be a "Frisco Tomorrow" plan.

For parts of Frisco, Allen, Murphy and McKinney etc, it’s going to be an issue much earlier than that.

[jiping]

There is zero financial problem in Plano. Property values are rising so fast that city council voted to reduce the tax rate in 2018.
Cheapo apartment dwellers really need to move to Dallas and save the deficit there.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by f4shionablecha0s

Suburban style tract housing requires a lot of infrastructure - streets in front of each house, water distribution, fire/police to serve a huge area, etc. But it doesn't generate much tax revenue over the long run. Plano's neighborhoods are aging and lots of this infrastructure needs to be replaced but the houses simply don't generate enough tax. They can either let the city decay and turn into Mesquite or they can transition to more dense development that will generate enough tax to pay the bills.

The NIMBYs that don't want apartment dwellers to live in their precious suburb don't realize that it's the apartment dwellers that will save the city.

It'd be interesting to see some legit quant-based research about all this. Reading the tea leaves I'd bet your thesis is utterly misplaced vis-a-vis Plano.

Relatedly, it's just amazing how a few well placed position papers can become a rallying cry.

Also, given that all-in cities are doing worse than suburbs it seems the entire thesis is suspect.