U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Will Dallas ever be Texas' 2nd biggest city again?
Yes 15 27.27%
No 40 72.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-10-2019, 09:41 AM
 
4,317 posts, read 4,566,940 times
Reputation: 4908

Advertisements

It'd be better if you just posted what you are looking at that supports, because the site itself isn't showing Houston to be anymore dense than downtown Dallas, beyond that Houston has a very tiny tract (#2100100 in the Greater 5th Ward - Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site) that touches 22k people per sq mile, which is among the highest in Texas, but is mostly surrounded by suburban density (5k people per sq mile). Dallas on the other hand is more uniform at 13-15k per sq mile in it's downtown core, but doesn't have any that touch 20k per sq mile. 5th Ward is also losing population, not gaining.


Also: zip codes may be used for demographics because they are available and easy, but there are actually just US postal delivery codes, and you can use them to find the actual routes your postman takes. They are not uniformly sized and are regularly subdivided when they get dense enough to require additional postal routes, which makes them not great for comparing historical density. Here's the delivery path for a route in 75219:

https://www.melissa.com/v2/lookups/c...ode/75219/C045

Last edited by Yac; 12-16-2019 at 01:35 AM..
Rate this post positively

 
Old 12-10-2019, 09:54 AM
 
205 posts, read 225,699 times
Reputation: 255
I dont think Zips are the best use to determine the urban cores but based on the limited data, it gives an ok look at it. I took my best crack into it (went ahead and excluded some zips, for both cities, that clip parts of the urban core but almost all is not)

Houston Zips used
77002 (2010 pop: 16793) (2017 pop: 12370)
77010 (2010 pop: 366) (2017 pop: 915)
77004 (2010 pop: 32692) (2017 pop: 37642)
77003 (2010 pop: 10508) (2017 pop: 9646)
77006 (2010 pop: 19664) (2017 pop: 21945)

I went ahead and removed the two zips that lost pop for the calculations. Let me know if you feel some of the other zips should be included here.

Totals (8.16 sq mi) (2010 pop: 54732) (2017 pop: 62519)
Density (2010: 6707/sq mi) (2017: 7662/sq mi)

Dallas Zips used
75201 (2010 pop: 9409) (2017 pop: 15185)
75202 (2010 pop: 1666) (2017 pop: 2029)
75204 (2010 pop: 26279) (2017 pop: 30370)
75226 (2010 pop: 3506) (2017 pop: 4790)
75219 (2010 pop: 22124) (2017 pop: 23277)

Totals (8.06 sq mi) (2010 pop: 62984) (2017 pop: 75651)
Density (2010: 7814/sq mi) (2017: 9386/sq mi)
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 09:59 AM
 
Location: 78745
3,578 posts, read 2,700,407 times
Reputation: 6323
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj View Post
You know, like by all accounts it should be?
I doubt Dallas will ever be the 2nd largest city in Texas. If it does happen, it will be several decades from now. In the meantine, by the year 2030, or at some point during the 2030's decade, Dallas will slip to 5th place as Ft. Worth and Austin will overtake "Big D" in population. That's what happens when a city allows itself to become surrounded by suburbs and no where to grow except "up", as in high rise condos and apartments.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles-Houston-DFW
2,180 posts, read 1,163,527 times
Reputation: 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOverdog View Post
It'd be better if you just posted what you are looking at that supports, because the site itself isn't showing Houston to be anymore dense than downtown Dallas, beyond that Houston has a very tiny tract (#2100100 in the Greater 5th Ward - Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site) that touches 22k people per sq mile, which is among the highest in Texas, but is mostly surrounded by suburban density (5k people per sq mile). Dallas on the other hand is more uniform at 13-15k per sq mile in it's downtown core, but doesn't have any that touch 20k per sq mile. 5th Ward is also losing population, not gaining.

Also: zip codes may be used for demographics because they are available and easy, but there are actually just US postal delivery codes, and you can use them to find the actual routes your postman takes. They are not uniformly sized and are regularly subdivided when they get dense enough to require additional postal routes, which makes them not great for comparing historical density. Here's the delivery path for a route in 75219:

https://www.melissa.com/v2/lookups/c...ode/75219/C045
You need to add up the zip codes with 610 (Houston) and Loop 12 (Dallas) and you'll see that Houston has a denser urban core to get a general number. Of course we know there is a larger urban core within 610 than Loop 12 as Houston is simply the larger city. Either city's downtown is only one neighborhood in their overall core, so comparing just that is not going to get you their urban core at all.

Also, you can view the urban area numbers where Houston's central urban area is densifying faster than Dallas (from this thread). Change between 2010-2017 (each metro has multiple urban areas but these are their main ones):

Houston had an increase of 1,166,552 people (in 1,660 square miles) for a total of 6,315,000 residents.
Dallas had an increase of 1,133,647 people (in 1,779.1 square miles) for a total of 6,550,000 residents.

Again, you can get these from the American Fact Finder website I linked earlier: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...es/index.xhtml

Last edited by Yac; 12-16-2019 at 01:35 AM..
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:08 AM
 
Location: 78745
3,578 posts, read 2,700,407 times
Reputation: 6323
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chingaso View Post
What in the blind green melon does it matter?
You must live in Dallas or one of its suburbs. It's usually the people who live in a city that is lagging are the ones who don't care too much for these types of competitions.

You're right, though, it really doesn't matter, but some people enjoy some friendly competition.

I bet if Dallas ever was to pass Houston in population, there would be alot of high-fiving, chest-bumping and celebrating going on in Dallas.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles-Houston-DFW
2,180 posts, read 1,163,527 times
Reputation: 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by dch526 View Post
I dont think Zips are the best use to determine the urban cores but based on the limited data, it gives an ok look at it. I took my best crack into it (went ahead and excluded some zips, for both cities, that clip parts of the urban core but almost all is not)

Houston Zips used
77002 (2010 pop: 16793) (2017 pop: 12370)
77010 (2010 pop: 366) (2017 pop: 915)
77004 (2010 pop: 32692) (2017 pop: 37642)
77003 (2010 pop: 10508) (2017 pop: 9646)
77006 (2010 pop: 19664) (2017 pop: 21945)

I went ahead and removed the two zips that lost pop for the calculations. Let me know if you feel some of the other zips should be included here.

Totals (8.16 sq mi) (2010 pop: 54732) (2017 pop: 62519)
Density (2010: 6707/sq mi) (2017: 7662/sq mi)

Dallas Zips used
75201 (2010 pop: 9409) (2017 pop: 15185)
75202 (2010 pop: 1666) (2017 pop: 2029)
75204 (2010 pop: 26279) (2017 pop: 30370)
75226 (2010 pop: 3506) (2017 pop: 4790)
75219 (2010 pop: 22124) (2017 pop: 23277)

Totals (8.06 sq mi) (2010 pop: 62984) (2017 pop: 75651)
Density (2010: 7814/sq mi) (2017: 9386/sq mi)
You missed several zip codes from Houston, including all of the ones on the western half of the inner loop including neighborhoods such as Greenway Plaza, Washington Avenue, Upper Kirby, Rice Military, partially got Montrose, etc.

I did this map not too long ago and think this represents a more accurate area for each city. Tried my best to not include SFH neighborhoods (which is why Third Ward for Houston and Lakewood for Dallas aren't included). I missed a few blocks in each city here and there, but I think this is pretty accurate:

Houston





Dallas

Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:20 AM
 
205 posts, read 225,699 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
You need to add up the zip codes with 610 (Houston) and Loop 12 (Dallas) and you'll see that Houston has a denser urban core to get a general number. Of course we know there is a larger urban core within 610 than Loop 12 as Houston is simply the larger city. Either city's downtown is only one neighborhood in their overall core, so comparing just that is not going to get you their urban core at all.

Also, you can view the urban area numbers where Houston's central urban area is densifying faster than Dallas (from this thread). Change between 2010-2017 (each metro has multiple urban areas but these are their main ones):

Houston had an increase of 1,166,552 people (in 1,660 square miles) for a total of 6,315,000 residents.
Dallas had an increase of 1,133,647 people (in 1,779.1 square miles) for a total of 6,550,000 residents.

Again, you can get these from the American Fact Finder website I linked earlier: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...es/index.xhtml
Wait a second, you consider everything within Loop 12 and within Loop 610 as an Urban Core?

When calculating, do you remove the following Areas to better define density?
Houston:
- Memorial Park
- Buffalo Bayou floodplain

Dallas:
- White Rock Lake
- Trinity River Floodplain
- Love Field
- The Great Trinity Forest
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:26 AM
 
205 posts, read 225,699 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
You missed several zip codes from Houston, including all of the ones on the western half of the inner loop including neighborhoods such as Greenway Plaza, Washington Avenue, Upper Kirby, Rice Military, partially got Montrose, etc.

I did this map not too long ago and think this represents a more accurate area for each city. Tried my best to not include SFH neighborhoods (which is why Third Ward for Houston and Lakewood for Dallas aren't included). I missed a few blocks in each city here and there, but I think this is pretty accurate:

Houston





Dallas
Nice breakdown, I wouldn't consider everything you have shown as fully interconnected(but that's however you want to define urban core). Honestly, Dallas should really stop at SMU. Those areas up there are dense with apartment but I wouldnt consider them part of the Urban Core.

Do you have a breakdown similar to what I did that shows how each has grown over the past 7 years?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles-Houston-DFW
2,180 posts, read 1,163,527 times
Reputation: 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by dch526 View Post
Wait a second, you consider everything within Loop 12 and within Loop 610 as an Urban Core?

When calculating, do you remove the following Areas to better define density?
Houston:
- Memorial Park
- Buffalo Bayou floodplain

Dallas:
- White Rock Lake
- Trinity River Floodplain
- Love Field
- The Great Trinity Forest
Not everything within those loops is the urban core for each city, and there are parts outside of the loops that are in the urban core (GOOF and Uptown areas for Houston; Northpark area in Dallas). Not really sure why you're listing the floodplains. I'm strictly talking about the zip codes and the neighborhoods within them. There is always a chance that a park or water may be included in the square mileage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dch526 View Post
Nice breakdown, I wouldn't consider everything you have shown as fully interconnected(but that's however you want to define urban core). Honestly, Dallas should really stop at SMU. Those areas up there are dense with apartment but I wouldnt consider them part of the Urban Core.

Do you have a breakdown similar to what I did that shows how each has grown over the past 7 years?
Dallas' core is more connected than Houston's now simply because it takes up a smaller area. Houston's core is larger due to being a bigger city, so it's taken time for it to come together. Now in 2019, it's safe to say Houston's core is having it's "coming out party" because the new developments are starting to all tie together. Houston has one of the hottest highrise residential markets in the country right now, and smaller mixed-use developments have been filling the gaps between them. Neighborhoods not filled with mixed-use are getting rows of townhomes now. It's been incredible to see the changes with each visit.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 12-10-2019, 10:52 AM
 
205 posts, read 225,699 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
Dallas' core is more connected than Houston's now simply because it takes up a smaller area. Houston's core is larger due to being a bigger city, so it's taken time for it to come together. Now in 2019, it's safe to say Houston's core is having it's "coming out party" because the new developments are starting to all tie together. Houston has one of the hottest highrise residential markets in the country right now, and smaller mixed-use developments have been filling the gaps between them. Neighborhoods not filled with mixed-use are getting rows of townhomes now. It's been incredible to see the changes with each visit.
Without a doubt, both cities have made amazing strides to become more urban and really starting to really connect the pockets together. My only argument is the density and growth in each city's urban core is very similar and I honestly don't believe one is outpacing the other by any large margin.

Very curious to see what comes out of the 2020 Census and we can dig deeper into the individual blocks/tracts to really fine tune the urban areas and compare to 2010. Everyone loves to focus on Austin but I think everyone is going to be very surprised by the numbers that come out of Dallas/Houston.
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Dallas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top