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Old 09-27-2021, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard123 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

South Coast Plaza has more going for it. It's been a while since I've been, but Fashion Island was also one of a kind and probably my personal favorite, at least in terms of childhood memories. It may have changed. I've never been to Houston.
Larger doesn't mean better. Do you know about the #2 mall listed, American Dream? It's pretty much a disaster. Meanwhile, the #10 mall, Ala Moana, is generally considered the best performing mall in the nation.

Why do you say SCP "has more going for it"?
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Old 09-27-2021, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
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South Coast Plaza is definitely a notch above Galleria and NorthPark, but not by too much.

I agree that larger doesn’t mean better. Just look at the Mall of America. It’s not exactly a disaster, but it’s shopping has failed to live to its hype. The few luxury stores that MSP get happen to be in Bloomington
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Old 09-27-2021, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
South Coast Plaza is definitely a notch above Galleria and NorthPark, but not by too much.

I agree that larger doesn’t mean better. Just look at the Mall of America. It’s not exactly a disaster, but it’s shopping has failed to live to its hype. The few luxury stores that MSP get happen to be in Bloomington
So what is it that makes SCP better than the TX malls? I agree that it capitalizes on the glitzy image of the OC, but is it really a better mall? Macy's is frankly nothing special.

The Houston Galleria has NM, Nordstrom, and Saks, plus the Macy's. And Dillard's right across the street (which is also better than Macy's). And, it's added some notable restaurants over recent years. And, it's mixed-use, with office buildings and hotels (admittedly the hotels haven't always been the best, but still...). Furthermore, it has had unquestionable beneficial ancillary development impacts and forms the anchor of the premier mixed-use district in TX (no offense to Uptown Dallas) that is increasingly walkable. Regarding Northpark, it probably has the best reputation in terms of interior aesthetics of any mall in the nation. How does SCP compare with that? The glitz factor can't count for that much.
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Old 09-27-2021, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
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Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
So what is it that makes SCP better than the TX malls? I agree that it capitalizes on the glitzy image of the OC, but is it really a better mall? Macy's is frankly nothing special.

The Houston Galleria has NM, Nordstrom, and Saks, plus the Macy's. And Dillard's right across the street (which is also better than Macy's). And, it's added some notable restaurants over recent years. And, it's mixed-use, with office buildings and hotels (admittedly the hotels haven't always been the best, but still...). Furthermore, it has had unquestionable beneficial ancillary development impacts and forms the anchor of the premier mixed-use district in TX (no offense to Uptown Dallas) that is increasingly walkable. Regarding Northpark, it probably has the best reputation in terms of interior aesthetics of any mall in the nation. How does SCP compare with that? The glitz factor can't count for that much.
The Sak’s Fifth Ave in the Galleria is the glitziest interior of any shopping interior development in Texas. It’s like it’s own mall in there.

That being said South Coast Plaza is on another level. As great as the Uptown Houston/River Oaks location is… come on… you’re comparing it to Costa Mesa. You’re simply not going to win a location argument anywhere in Texas when you’re going up against La la land. Particularly if the topic is shopping.

And now let’s talk about the actual function of the malls which is shopping… SCP wins this all the way. To your point, The Galleria does have 3 of the big 4 luxury department stores and this is a huge deal. Especially the Saks (again I can’t stress how great the Saks in the Galleria is). But so does SPC. Instead of Neiman Marcus, they have Bloomingdales. As for the actual stores themselves, the stores in SCP gets consistently more product availability in comparison to their Texas counterparts. They prioritize the LA locations before they do Texas.
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Old 09-27-2021, 10:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard123 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

South Coast Plaza has more going for it. It's been a while since I've been, but Fashion Island was also one of a kind and probably my personal favorite, at least in terms of childhood memories. It may have changed. I've never been to Houston.
Honestly - SCP & NP are probably two of the most similar malls of that caliber in the US. They are both mid century, still family owned and operated, meticulous in curating their tenant mix, both with a unique arts focus (NorthPark has a renowned art collection & SCP has the family’s arts center adjacent) and both in the uber elite $1B+ revenue club.

Tenant roster very similar - SCP doesn’t have a competitor like HPV as close so there is a larger luxury presence (Chanel, Hermès, Celine, Dior, etc are at HPV in Dallas). And I do love the bougainvillea on the walkover bridge at SCP!


Fashion Island is a fantastic outdoor property, however I find the merch mix disappointing for the NB market. It’s a very nice neighborhood lifestyle center with Whole Foods, CorePower Yoga and I think some other fitness studios, several great restaurants, etc. Hands down the best Anthropologie store I’ve ever been to…their CEO happened to be in town for a major floor set the last time I was in that store. But overall it’s lots of basic mall brands (Victoria’s Secret, Loft, Claire’s, etc) packaged in a beautiful coastal setting. Bloomingdale’s is pretty boring - SCP’s is much stronger of the two.
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Old 09-28-2021, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
The Sak’s Fifth Ave in the Galleria is the glitziest interior of any shopping interior development in Texas. It’s like it’s own mall in there.

That being said South Coast Plaza is on another level. As great as the Uptown Houston/River Oaks location is… come on… you’re comparing it to Costa Mesa. You’re simply not going to win a location argument anywhere in Texas when you’re going up against La la land. Particularly if the topic is shopping.

And now let’s talk about the actual function of the malls which is shopping… SCP wins this all the way. To your point, The Galleria does have 3 of the big 4 luxury department stores and this is a huge deal. Especially the Saks (again I can’t stress how great the Saks in the Galleria is). But so does SPC. Instead of Neiman Marcus, they have Bloomingdales. As for the actual stores themselves, the stores in SCP gets consistently more product availability in comparison to their Texas counterparts. They prioritize the LA locations before they do Texas.
Funny cause South Coast Plaza location is in the middle of a suburban landscape. That part of Costa Mesa reminds me so much of what you see in Texas. Huge mall right off the freeway next to a bunch of strip malls and national chains. You can plop that area in Houston or DFW and wouldn't even know the difference.

Now I actually went to South Coast Plaza a couple of months ago while I was in LA. SCP wasn't on our itinerary but we were visiting Family at a restaurant attached to the mall called Anqi so we decided to explore the mall a bit.

It has a very nice interior but a mall is a mall imo. It felt no different than being in the Galleria or Northpark. Honestly I think Northpark has the better art installations than SCP. Unless the mall has a theme park or something completely unique in it like malls in Vegas...the differences imo become minuscule.

And what my visit to SCP even more meh was the fact that we had already shopping districts like Rodeo drive/ Melrose/ and The Grove so when I walked into SCP it just felt like another suburban mall. It did have a less ratchet crowd than the Galleria though so there's that.
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Old 09-28-2021, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Honestly - SCP & NP are probably two of the most similar malls of that caliber in the US. They are both mid century, still family owned and operated, meticulous in curating their tenant mix, both with a unique arts focus (NorthPark has a renowned art collection & SCP has the family’s arts center adjacent) and both in the uber elite $1B+ revenue club.

Tenant roster very similar - SCP doesn’t have a competitor like HPV as close so there is a larger luxury presence (Chanel, Hermès, Celine, Dior, etc are at HPV in Dallas). And I do love the bougainvillea on the walkover bridge at SCP!


Fashion Island is a fantastic outdoor property, however I find the merch mix disappointing for the NB market. It’s a very nice neighborhood lifestyle center with Whole Foods, CorePower Yoga and I think some other fitness studios, several great restaurants, etc. Hands down the best Anthropologie store I’ve ever been to…their CEO happened to be in town for a major floor set the last time I was in that store. But overall it’s lots of basic mall brands (Victoria’s Secret, Loft, Claire’s, etc) packaged in a beautiful coastal setting. Bloomingdale’s is pretty boring - SCP’s is much stronger of the two.
Thank you for this interesting perspective. Sounds like you could call SCP a suburban version of NP.

It makes me wonder also if Ala Moana is equivalently attractive and has as strong a tenant roster and good in-store merchandising as SCP/NP/HG to generate its success, or if it just coasts on the spending from visiting Asian tourists.
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:06 AM
 
13,037 posts, read 26,149,927 times
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Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Thank you for this interesting perspective. Sounds like you could call SCP a suburban version of NP.

It makes me wonder also if Ala Moana is equivalently attractive and has as strong a tenant roster and good in-store merchandising as SCP/NP/HG to generate its success, or if it just coasts on the spending from visiting Asian tourists.
I would argue that NP is suburban…at least from the perspective of its opening in 1965….in the middle of farmland that was being sold off and developed for post war suburban living. LA just sprawled faster than Dallas did.


I don’t much about Ala Moana - never could get a seat on the corporate jet for the rare Hawaii store visit. I think a lot of it is Asian tourists and well as mainland US tourists. Many of the luxury brands will have slightly lower prices on handbags or take price increases slower so if you’re in the market for a new Gucci or LV bag and happen to be in Honolulu, definitely good to price shop!
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Houston
4,909 posts, read 3,826,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
I would argue that NP is suburban…at least from the perspective of its opening in 1965….in the middle of farmland that was being sold off and developed for post war suburban living. LA just sprawled faster than Dallas did.


I don’t much about Ala Moana - never could get a seat on the corporate jet for the rare Hawaii store visit. I think a lot of it is Asian tourists and well as mainland US tourists. Many of the luxury brands will have slightly lower prices on handbags or take price increases slower so if you’re in the market for a new Gucci or LV bag and happen to be in Honolulu, definitely good to price shop!
Yeah The Galleria in Houston was also considered suburban when it opened in 1970. I'd argue that both NP and HG are now considered part of the urban core, certainly as of post-2000. Honestly, all older malls were originally "suburban" - "urban" malls emerged only later as copycats trying to recapture the sales in the urban core that had been lost to suburban competition, or at least the suburbs as they existed in the 1960s-1970s. Now "urban" malls like NP and HG have to fight for spending against the top-quality malls in today's suburbs (mostly outer suburbs), and they usually do that by having top quality luxury and upscale tenants plus the luxury department store anchors, with the goal of "if there's only one outlet of this luxury tenant / brand in the region, it will be at our property", or, failing that, "the best merchandised location of this luxury tenant / brand in our region will be at our property."

Of course, even upscale malls have existential issues and concerns now that weren't part of the picture 20 years ago.
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
3,992 posts, read 3,836,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
I would argue that NP is suburban…at least from the perspective of its opening in 1965….in the middle of farmland that was being sold off and developed for post war suburban living. LA just sprawled faster than Dallas did.


I don’t much about Ala Moana - never could get a seat on the corporate jet for the rare Hawaii store visit. I think a lot of it is Asian tourists and well as mainland US tourists. Many of the luxury brands will have slightly lower prices on handbags or take price increases slower so if you’re in the market for a new Gucci or LV bag and happen to be in Honolulu, definitely good to price shop!
I'd still say SCP is more suburban than Northpark. Northpark is in the actual city of Dallas and 13 mins away from Dallas core. SCP is in Costa Mesa in Orange County and a good 47 mins away from downtown LA. That's like DT Dallas to University Park Village in Ft.Worth and that's still only 35 mins away from each other.
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