D/FW dominates NY Times "Where should you move?" rankings (Dallas: renting, how much)

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by Lorne

"Texas, now, feels a bit like California did when I first moved here in the late 1980s — a thriving, dynamic place where it doesn’t take a lot to establish a good life. For many people, that’s more than enough."

This is one very important reason why so many Californians I know are moving here. Majority of my friends from California grew up there during mid 80s and 90s in areas like Irvine, Tustin and Lake Forest; they see a lot of similarities in terms of suburban development.

This right here.

Texas in the 2000's and 2010's is going through what California went through in the 1970's and 80's.

Explosive growth because there is a lot of open unused land.

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

My mother thought Stonebridge Ranch in McKinney would be like Woodbridge in Irvine. Needless to say, she was sorely disappointed. The only reasons one would move from a neighborhood like that are a loss of income, family situation, or politics, and the politics are bad. However, there are plenty of crummy neighborhoods and cities as well. I recall places like Anaheim and Garbage Grove. Tustin wasn't that great either.

Irvine is itself a planned community, not at all comparable to any city in Texas. The development patterns are totally different and share virtually nothing in common.

I've always felt Irvine was comparable to The Woodlands outside of the Houston, but I get the gist of your point.

Texas suburbs are nice, but some of those master planned communities in California take suburban planning to a whole different level.


My aunt used to live(90's) in North Orange County in Fullerton, and I never thought Orange County was anything that special until they started making tv shows and movies about the OC.

North Orange County (Santa Ana, Fullerton...etc) is really no different from Garland, Richardson or Plano. Suburban sprawl with a mix of diversity.

South Orange County (everything south of the John Wayne Airport) is where the really affluent people in Orange County live that is shown on TV with shows like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, and MTV cribs.

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Do you have any evidence of Stonebridge being "copied" after anything? Is that some hidden secret because I've never seen any source that was intended back in 1988. I have lived here just about from the beginning, and it's been a big disappointment. Right now, resale values are not doing well, and it seems to be in decline. I think that's true of McKinney in general though. I think it's headed far downhill.

I cannot see any resemblance between Plano and Irvine myself, but evidently I don't see a lot of what others do.

For one, compare the square footage and lot size of these houses. 2000 square feet was unheard of in Woodbridge and most of Irvine that I knew. A 6000+ square foot lot would have been "country living."

I'm not disputing anything you say, but can you expand on the bolded?

I was once looking at buying a home in McKinney, and I've heard friends that live out there echo some of the same things.

[Gree Mountain]

I find the article quite fair in its assessment of what's positive and negative about life in DFW. My complaint is with the quiz itself. Its categories perpetuate the suburban bias so common in relocation discussions. Cash-flush transplants from the coasts could easily afford to live in neighborhoods in East Dallas, for example, that are close to urban amenities, have distinct architecture, involved communities, and superb neighborhood schools. This area also tends to have more liberal residents for the newcomers that care about such things.

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by Gree Mountain

I find the article quite fair in its assessment of what's positive and negative about life in DFW. My complaint is with the quiz itself. Its categories perpetuate the suburban bias so common in relocation discussions. Cash-flush transplants from the coasts could easily afford to live in neighborhoods in East Dallas, for example, that are close to urban amenities, have distinct architecture, involved communities, and superb neighborhood schools. This area also tends to have more liberal residents for the newcomers that care about such things.

This is the truth. I know a lot of upper income transplants that have moved here that are totally used to paying for private schools.

Some of these folks work at the Baylor Medical Center in Deep Ellum, or in downtown Dallas.
A lot of them live in East Dallas, Lake Highlands and even parts of Oak Cliff.
There are a number of people that the thought of spending 2 hours every day to live in some far out suburb is not appealing at all.


You don't have to live in a suburb to live in a nice affordable neighborhood. There are plenty of nice neighborhoods inside of 635.

[Gree Mountain]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

This is the truth. I know a lot of upper income transplants that have moved here that are totally used to paying for private schools.

Some of these folks work at the Baylor Medical Center in Deep Ellum, or in downtown Dallas.
A lot of them live in East Dallas, Lake Highlands and even parts of Oak Cliff.
There are a number of people that the thought of spending 2 hours every day to live in some far out suburb is not appealing at all.


You don't have to live in a suburb to live in a nice affordable neighborhood. There are plenty of nice neighborhoods inside of 635.

Agree! Moreover, I know people that work at the places you mention that send their kids to neighborhood public schools (elementary, middle, and high school) in the Woodrow feeder pattern. So you can live in a nice affordable city neighborhood without paying for private school.

[75214Dad]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

This is the truth. I know a lot of upper income transplants that have moved here that are totally used to paying for private schools.

Some of these folks work at the Baylor Medical Center in Deep Ellum, or in downtown Dallas.
A lot of them live in East Dallas, Lake Highlands and even parts of Oak Cliff.
There are a number of people that the thought of spending 2 hours every day to live in some far out suburb is not appealing at all.


You don't have to live in a suburb to live in a nice affordable neighborhood. There are plenty of nice neighborhoods inside of 635.

Yes, however, the article was specifically looking for racially and politically diverse places. As much as I love East Dallas the census says we are very white and the electoral map says we are very one sided. I was glad to see places like Euless and Garland get some love for once!

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

I'm not disputing anything you say, but can you expand on the bolded?

I was once looking at buying a home in McKinney, and I've heard friends that live out there echo some of the same things.

The city is on an aggressive push to bring in more low income housing (which is completely unnecessary given housing here is already dirt cheap), and it's just seemed no one wants to move to McKinney. It always gets passed up for cities with more PR.

I'm not quite sure personally why people in this market, given the alternatives, would find a neighborhood like Stonebridge or Eldorado so repulsive though. I'd like to find that out myself. If anyone here can answer that, I'd love to know.

I've been looking for the past year to find a place to move, and I've come to realize every place has its problems. Home values here are not quite keeping up, so I can't count on resale gains. It's a horrible position to be in. In my case, it's time for something new, and it's slim pickings for new construction, and I don't think the new neighborhoods and cities are much improvement at least not those of us who just want a small garden/patio home. My health precludes any long-distance travel.

[DabOnEm]

Low income housing is needed in Collin County. Yes it is an affordable area conpared to other coastal metro areas but it's expensive compared to other sides of DFW. Not everyone will have your same range when it comes to buying a house, plus the retail and service industry needs employees nearby. There was a time a couple years ago when all that development in Frisco couldnt find workers because it was too far away from where most people who'd apply lived (south of 30). On top of that tolls were the easiest way to get up to CoCo so to add that cost on top of wear and tear was too much.

So yeah they need low income housing up there, and with McKinney being the county seat it makes sense the city is building them. Hopefully other cities pick up the slack.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Low income housing is needed in Collin County. Yes it is an affordable area conpared to other coastal metro areas but it's expensive compared to other sides of DFW. Not everyone will have your same range when it comes to buying a house, plus the retail and service industry needs employees nearby. There was a time a couple years ago when all that development in Frisco couldnt find workers because it was too far away from where most people who'd apply lived (south of 30). On top of that tolls were the easiest way to get up to CoCo so to add that cost on top of wear and tear was too much.

So yeah they need low income housing up there, and with McKinney being the county seat it makes sense the city is building them. Hopefully other cities pick up the slack.

No, it does not make sense. Quite the opposite, you are ignoring the fact that McKinney is already among the cheapest cities to live in the county, but unlike the other cities, values are not going up, and population is not increasing. One may as well be renting as there is no ability to build equity.

What would make much more sense is to put that low income housing in Frisco and Prosper. McKinney could have focused on creating better paying jobs like other cities did and keeping up home values so that people living there would not be trapped. Instead they do just the opposite. I never thought I would live to see the day Stonebridge Ranch and Eldorado would be deemed low-income low-class areas.

It does not make sense on any level.