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Immigration of high skill workforce is critical to our country success, past and future. From tech, to healthcare, and financial services. They are also building the next Amazon's and Google's of the future, just look at the founders across the tech industry, they are mostly hard working immigrants. As an American citizen, I would prefer these people come to our country and contribute vs another country. Of course there are some bad apples or lazy folks coming in, but lets not forget the big picture.
I don't know if you are from India, but I can say with 100% confidence that the magnitude is not overblown. There are over 1 million Indians in DFW alone, most of them are working as a consultants on H1B for JP Morgan, Intuit , Goldman Sachs etc. Almost all of them have zero or rudimentary technical skills (basic SQL and knowing how to push couple of buttons that even a high school student can learn) and are working on supporting legacy softwares that were written 20 years ago and almost no startup or technically competent company uses anymore. There is huge influx of Indians who constantly move to Dallas area thanks to UTD , UT Arlington and WITCH companies and this sham will keep going on for the foreseeable future until DFW just becomes bay area 2.0
If the reverse would have happened, India and China would have banned or severely restricted immigration altogether a long time ago. But here we are where big banks and politicians continue to dismantle middle class America just to be in power and control.
You’re just plain wrong.
And you’ve also clearly never attempted or have any knowledge about how one gets a job at the firms you just mentioned. Go ahead, try and get a job at Goldman or Jp Morgan and tell me how many people you meet on the other side with ‘Rudimentary’ skills at anything.
Also who uses ‘basic’ SQL or ‘buttons’ anymore? When was the last time you worked at any of those firms? Or anywhere else for that matter? Legacy applications are what they are but how do you think Finserv industries have managed to move with the times? How do you figure all those banking apps work? Those ATMs, those online services that mean you dont need to drive to the bank to deposit checks, or open an account or get a loan? Who do you suppose builds those features? According to you, people with ‘rudimentary’ skills? Maybe explain what rudimentary means to you.
I’m not fully convinced you’re not just trolling like the OP.
This is true, but while they might learn British English ON PAPER, most of them don't actually SPEAK British English, but rather in dialects totally unique to India and often difficult for non-Indians to understand. On top of that, many don't seem to have the ability to standardize their English when speaking English to non-Indians, which leads to them having lots of major communication problems.
Accents and dialects are not the same thing.
Personally I’m impressed with any adult whose mind can learn a new language or a new way of speaking an old language. Its not an easy feat.
This is an interesting conversation
Full disclaimer for those who don’t know; I’m an immigrant. Came here 24 years ago, attended college here at TCU. I’ve been here long enough to evolve in my thoughts concerning immigrants. At first I naively thought all immigrants were like myself; hard working, determined to achieve the American dream. Now I’ve come around to the now obvious realization that immigrants are just people with your good, bad, ugly and everything in between. Just like Americans. Just people with all our basic features and flaws. So yes, there are immigrants who are lazy, mediocre to outright garbage at work. I witnessed many Indian students who cheated in school, a lot.
But I also have seen brilliant students, focused high achieving workers as well. And the thing about the US is that it generally rewards hard work. My wife was a nurse manager at a big Dallas hospital. The best nurses? The Filipinos hands down. I’m in the accounting world. Lots of talented accounting and finance people who are immigrants.
If Americans are complaining about being shut out of the best jobs in IT, that’s strange to me because all the coding camps and STEM programs I enrolled my oldest daughter in as a teenager were overwhelmingly Asian kids. You could count the number of non Asians on two hands on a good day. Indians start early with this. While little Johnny is playing peewee football the Indian kids are doing extra math. Maybe the H1B crowd is suspect but make no mistake the American born Indians are also going to be taking those jobs as because they put in the work and made the sacrifices that many Americans are reluctant to do.
Most American colleges would do anything to bring in more American students to the STEM majors, especially girls who they throw all kinds of scholarships at. But the only people showing up are those immigrants over and over again. So you cant really can’t complain.
It’s hilarious to me as a former US immigrant myself (some may say expat, a title I reserve for my parents). I may be coming at this from a different viewpoint but there’s actually more Americans living abroad than there are immigrants living in America. And I wont get into the details of behaviors of Americans abroad. But they are exactly the same as what people are complaining about here. No attempt to assimilate, hiring other ‘unqualified’ Americans (according to the locals) being loud with their terrible parties and food and holidays, being disrespectful of local customs…like covering up, sequestering themselves in schools and neighborhoods and so on and so on…so many complaints.
What the locals seem to gloss over is all the work ‘the Americans’ are doing there, all the progress they have made possible. All the MONEY they’ve brought to the economy and how EVERYONE has benefited from their presence.
Are there bad eggs in any collective group of people? Yes, always. But I can tell some of the posters here have never actually attempted to apply for so much as a passport or visa for a foreign country. The vetting process is insane. Some may have managed to learn how to beat the system but by far they are not a majority. And if you dont trust the government, give the private sector some credit. A bad developer cant hide for long.
Bottom line, if you’d like to see more Americans in tech and STEM fields, do the necessary. Set up your kids for success in those fields. Do the work. The rest will sort itself out.
P.S= H1B sponsorship is rarely ever the cheaper option for an employer. There’s a reason this is the almost exclusive realm of companies with deep pockets and dedicated legal teams.
Last edited by BLDSoon; 06-30-2022 at 10:46 AM..
Reason: Typos
Immigration of high skill workforce is critical to our country success, past and future. From tech, to healthcare, and financial services. They are also building the next Amazon's and Google's of the future, just look at the founders across the tech industry, they are mostly hard working immigrants. As an American citizen, I would prefer these people come to our country and contribute vs another country. Of course there are some bad apples or lazy folks coming in, but lets not forget the big picture.
The would could and would do far better without Amazon and Google or most of the big tech companies. It would be a good thing if they did disappear.
We do need some help in health care, but most definitely not in tech. There are plenty of US citizens both in college and in the job market. Qualified citizens are not getting hired.
The tech industry needs to shrink regardless. College enrollment needs to shrink. Colleges themselves need to shrink. Those are not the jobs we need or should be encouraging.
Qualified citizens are there, and immigrants are being hired over them. It's not due to salary requirements, and it's not due to a knowledge gap, so I can only assume there is some sort of corrupt scheme going on on top of the HR/interview processes for certain being deeply flawed.
It’s hilarious to me as a former US immigrant myself (some may say expat, a title I reserve for my parents). I may be coming at this from a different viewpoint but there’s actually more Americans living abroad than there are immigrants living in America. And I wont get into the details of behaviors of Americans abroad. But they are exactly the same as what people are complaining about here. No attempt to assimilate, hiring other ‘unqualified’ Americans (according to the locals) being loud with their terrible parties and food and holidays, being disrespectful of local customs…like covering up, sequestering themselves in schools and neighborhoods and so on and so on…so many complaints.
What the locals seem to gloss over is all the work ‘the Americans’ are doing there, all the progress they have made possible. All the MONEY they’ve brought to the economy and how EVERYONE has benefited from their presence.
Are there bad eggs in any collective group of people? Yes, always. But I can tell some of the posters here have never actually attempted to apply for so much as a passport or visa for a foreign country. The vetting process is insane. Some may have managed to learn how to beat the system but by far they are not a majority. And if you dont trust the government, give the private sector some credit. A bad developer cant hide for long.
Bottom line, if you’d like to see more Americans in tech and STEM fields, do the necessary. Set up your kids for success in those fields. Do the work. The rest will sort itself out.
P.S= H1B sponsorship is rarely ever the cheaper option for an employer. There’s a reason this is the almost exclusive realm of companies with deep pockets and dedicated legal teams.
Those are two totally different types of groups though. Expats that are working for a period of time, military personnel, etc. are very different from permanent residents going through immigration. In particular as it relates to integrating with local culture and populace.
Not to excuse any bad behavior or anything, just don't think it is a valid comparison.
Those are two totally different types of groups though. Expats that are working for a period of time, military personnel, etc. are very different from permanent residents going through immigration. In particular as it relates to integrating with local culture and populace.
Not to excuse any bad behavior or anything, just don't think it is a valid comparison.
I can understand that view. But that also depends on the region. In some regions (Costa Rica comes to mind) we really are talking about permanent residents. And for most expats, ‘temporary’ usually means several years and often lifetimes. Military and government is an exception but again… it depends on location and type of assignment.
My point was, immigrants everywhere tend to cluster around other immigrants with the same background. One can’t just switch off who they are because they are someplace new. You live among others like you, at first at least, to help you navigate your new home. Then ideally, you (or your kids) venture out once you know what’s what. I’ve experienced this and its almost always resented by locals-more so if your lifestyle seems more fortunate than the standard. But its almost always a necessity for the new immigrant.
There are many such clusters in DFW. East Plano has many almost exclusively East Asian and Mexican neighborhoods, north plano is also heavily South Asian, North Dallas and some parts of Plano are pretty much Jewish enclaves. Irving and coppell have been South Indian and Mexican for some time now.
For some reason though, the Frisco situation really irks people. My opinion is that’s because of the display of wealth.If Indians were here to fill up and drive prices up in Princeton, no-one would bat an eye. I’m yet to hear complaints about them in Irving. There are few. Because when they moved there, nobody wanted to live there. So for all the complaints about H1B I think the crux of matter is just the idea that they are able to buy up THAT area that others would have liked to have been able to live in, but currently cant afford anymore or don’t want to because they’d prefer not to be surrounded by people that they don’t share a culture with. The irony.
I can understand how some might feel pushed out. Indians/Pakistanis can be very insular culturally and hard to get to know personally if you aren’t one of them yourself and even if you are but are say, Sikh vs whatever the dominant group is. I’m personally against that type of clustering no matter who’s doing it. Its fuel for all types of conflicts and misunderstanding and that is true no matter what part of the world I’ve been in. Especially when done to the extremes present in dfw. (See the Southlake/Highland Park thread). Unfortunately that’s just the world we live in.
That does not mean that the Asians that dominate the IT industry in the US are mostly incompetents that cheated their way through the immigration system then through American colleges then into and through American graduate schools and lastly through some pretty rigorous interview and background check processes into some of the most prestigious and innovative American companies.
I mean if they manage to pull that off in such great numbers they must be some kind of geniuses right?
I don't know if you are from India, but I can say with 100% confidence that the magnitude is not overblown. There are over 1 million Indians in DFW alone, most of them are working as a consultants on H1B for JP Morgan, Intuit , Goldman Sachs etc. Almost all of them have zero or rudimentary technical skills (basic SQL and knowing how to push couple of buttons that even a high school student can learn) and are working on supporting legacy softwares that were written 20 years ago and almost no startup or technically competent company uses anymore. There is huge influx of Indians who constantly move to Dallas area thanks to UTD , UT Arlington and WITCH companies and this sham will keep going on for the foreseeable future until DFW just becomes bay area 2.0
If the reverse would have happened, India and China would have banned or severely restricted immigration altogether a long time ago. But here we are where big banks and politicians continue to dismantle middle class America just to be in power and control.
1. Prove it. All of them have atleast a Bachelor's degree and a good portion of them have Masters.
2. Its not about India or China or USA. Its about doing things right and looking for win win situations. Immigration is a win win. How is American middle class being dismantled with such low unemployment levels in the Tech sector?
1. Prove it. All of them have atleast a Bachelor's degree and a good portion of them have Masters.
2. Its not about India or China or USA. Its about doing things right and looking for win win situations. Immigration is a win win. How is American middle class being dismantled with such low unemployment levels in the Tech sector?
I have no idea on the first, but obviously the system is such that colleges are bringing them in by boatloads. They are probably the majority. This is completely unnecessary.
I disagree with your second point. You don't factor in the amount of underemployment. The are far more applicants than jobs in many cases, and any numbers showing the contrary are being skewed somehow.
The American middle class is disappearing because of the companies' hiring practices and excessive consolidation. On top of that, society has been hurt because the "tech sector" is too large and influential. This too hurts the middle class.
H1B visas are completely unnecessary. They do more harm than good in most cases much like these big tech firms that exist today.
The would could and would do far better without Amazon and Google or most of the big tech companies. It would be a good thing if they did disappear.
We do need some help in health care, but most definitely not in tech. There are plenty of US citizens both in college and in the job market. Qualified citizens are not getting hired.
The tech industry needs to shrink regardless. College enrollment needs to shrink. Colleges themselves need to shrink. Those are not the jobs we need or should be encouraging.
Qualified citizens are there, and immigrants are being hired over them. It's not due to salary requirements, and it's not due to a knowledge gap, so I can only assume there is some sort of corrupt scheme going on on top of the HR/interview processes for certain being deeply flawed.
I hope you're just a troll, or live under an enormous rock, or both.
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